Can Berlin Handle Any More Memorials?

[Annelie]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 33,00.html

Has Germany an excessive sense of guilt is an good question.

[Jock]

Without trying to start flame wars...

I agree...many Germans I have met do have a blame complex about it, especially the young. Its a shame they cannot separate the actions of a crazy minority, and feel proud of their grandfathers efforts and courage.

The people of Germany today have no blame for what happened (except the few SS KL guards still living!), and should feel sorrow like everyone else, but the blame period is gone.

[pzrmeyer2]

Without trying to start flame wars...

I agree...many Germans I have met do have a blame complex about it, especially the young. Its a shame they cannot separate the actions of a crazy minority, and feel proud of their grandfathers efforts and courage.

The people of Germany today have no blame for what happened (except the few SS KL guards still living!), and should feel sorrow like everyone else, but the blame period is gone.

Of course, its not always about simple remembrance; its also about money and power.

[pzrmeyer2]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 33,00.html

Has Germany an excessive sense of guilt is an good question.

Annelie, Germany, or at least its public image, has "evolved" into a nation of limp-wristed ass-kissers.

Of course, "memorial fatigue" is only questionable when the monuments are about certain victims, such as the expellees or those killed by the USSR/DDR/RAF. I'm sure no one would stand in the way if the entire city would be renamed as "Holcaustopferdenkmalstadtderwelt Berlin"

[sid guttridge]

Hi Annelie,

I don't think Germany has an excessive sense of guilt.

However, whether it is productive to keep shoving the sins and errors of their grandfathers down the throats of today's young Germans is certainly to be questioned.

The Nazis practiced race guilt. We should not.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Annelie]

I don't think Germany has an excessive sense of guilt.

However, whether it is productive to keep shoving the sins and errors of their grandfathers down the throats of today's young Germans is certainly to be questioned.

By shoving sins and errors ...your words not mine down the throat of the young Germans is indeed a way to ensure quilt?

[sid guttridge]

Hi Annelie,

Guilt is the appropriate response for sins committed and errors made.

Young Germans haven't anything to feel guilty about regarding WWII, so one has to question whether there will come a point where it will be counter productive to keep reminding them of things they are not responsible for.

Public memorials in prominent places are very "in your face" and could become counter productive.

The aim is presumably to help prevent a repetition. An excess of public reminders may not help this.

Cheers,

Sid

[AAA]

Young Germans haven't anything to feel guilty about regarding WWII, so one has to question whether there will come a point where it will be counter productive to keep reminding them of things they are not responsible for.

The point of counterproductivity already passed in the 90's, when the average young German was already 2 generations removed from those times, Sid. Today : Figure a German kid of 15 years today was born 1990, parents maybe 1960, grandparents 1930 and too young to participate in WWII. 3 generations already, not just counterproductive but already getting ludicrous.

[pzrmeyer2]

Young Germans haven't anything to feel guilty about regarding WWII, so one has to question whether there will come a point where it will be counter productive to keep reminding them of things they are not responsible for.

The point of counterproductivity already passed in the 90's, when the average young German was already 2 generations removed from those times, Sid. Today : Figure a German kid of 15 years today was born 1990, parents maybe 1960, grandparents 1930 and too young to participate in WWII. 3 generations already, not just counterproductive but already getting ludicrous.

the good news is that attitudes among many are changing. a backlash is inevitable.

[haen2]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 33,00.html
Has Germany an excessive sense of guilt is an good question.

YES Annelie,
If you tell anything long enough, loud enough and often enough there will be hordes of people who will believe it; from there on it will snowball and become a truth unto itself.
The past nazi propaganda machinery knew that and made extensive use of it. So did the Bolshevists.
When the tide turned, the NEW propaganda machinery used the same tactics, and thus rotted Germany from within, so that it has lost it's soul.
However, it is not just Germany that is rotting from within; the whole western civilisation is getting contaminated with it .
A prophetic book on this was "Der Untergang des Abendlandes' already written in 1902. (Oswald Spengler)
HN

[haen2]

Does anybody realize that the demolished Germany was rebuilt mainly by Women, old men, invalids en even children ?
If this feat had to be repeated this day, it would never come off the ground.
With the exception of course of the "whatever" monuments decrying how guilty we still are for something that happened more than half a century ago.
HN

[pzrmeyer2]

However, it is not just Germany that is rotting from within; the whole western civilisation is getting contaminated with it .

truer words were never spoken

[Annelie]

However, it is not just Germany that is rotting from within; the whole western civilisation is getting contaminated with it .

Sadly true.

In our capital a year ago caught on video were guys (over 21)
pissing on the war monument. If I were in power I would'
have them thrown in jail for ten years and then serve ten years.

[sid guttridge]

Hi pzrmeyer,

No, "the backlash" is not good news.

The backlash is against those opposed to the atrocities of the past. Any such "backlash" against them is, by association, effectively in favour of the atrocities of the past.

We should be trying to head off such an unappealing backlash by not provoking it through too many in-your-face, accusative monuments.

Young Germans are not responsible for the past, only for the future. In order not to repeat the mistakes of the past, they must know what they are. However, they should not be thoughtlessly bombarded about them.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Cott Tiger]

When the tide turned, the NEW propaganda machinery used the same tactics, and thus rotted Germany from within, so that it has lost it's soul.
However, it is not just Germany that is rotting from within; the whole western civilisation is getting contaminated with it .

HN

Hi Haen,

I travelled to Dusseldorf recently and I have previously spent a lot of time in Cologne. I don’t see a nation that is rotting or has no soul. I see a modern, wealthy and progressive nation. The young people of these Cities do not fit the broken, guilt ridden picture you and Erik seem to paint of them. They are vibrant, ambitious and on the whole forward looking people.

Of course, the modern and unified Germany faces many crucial economic, social and political issues, as most Western democracies do.
However, the German people I meet and talk to have little or no concern directly with WWII. They will talk openly and frankly about the war (unlike the Japanese), and why shouldn’t they, but I don’t sense this depressing burden of guilt which some on here seem to think hangs over all of Germany and her people.

Kind regards,

Andre