Ju 390 flies to the US????

jerijerod · Post by **jerijerod** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 am

Hi I found this article on the Junker 390. Can any one tell me anymore about it this event? Personally by 1944 I think a German assault on New York would have gained them little more than the wrath of the US, unless Germany HAD developed the A-bomb. What do you guys think?
Cheers
Chris

In January of 1944 a prototype of a German heavy bomber, the Ju 390, took off on a top secret mission. This six engine bomber, the largest aircraft made by the Germans during the war, carried enough fuel to stay in the air for 32 hours. Testing the feasibility of bombing New York city in the United States the Ju 390 came within 12 mi (20 km) of the American Coast undetected. Averaging 222 mph (357 km/h) during the 6,000 mi (9656 km) round-trip which took more than a day the bomber successfully returned to base.

Erich · Post by **Erich** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:50 pm

it's pure baloney

jerijerod · Post by **jerijerod** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:33 am

Thanks Erich, I thought it sounded a little suspicious but thought i would ask. Thanks muchly
Chris

DeBaer · Post by **DeBaer** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:07 am

are you sure?
because i've also read it on a website which is, in my eyes, very reputable.
http://www.luftarchiv.de
and also some other sources.
how comes you are that sure its pure baloney?

ju55dk · Post by **ju55dk** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:03 am

Erich is quite right about this. From november 43 to march 44 is was undergoing trials at Prag-Rusin. Flown by Flugkapitän Pancherz! There is no shred of evidence as to this supposed flight! All rumors grew up after the war, and has been repeated since. Get the book "Die grossen Dessauer" about Ju 89, 90, 290 and 390 written by to highly respected aviation-historian Kössler and Ott.

Junker

Will · Post by **Will** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:27 am

Yeah as far as I know the 390 never got past the prototype stage, pretty much in the same way as the german A bomb (thankfully

) It was mentioned on the history channel (or was it discovery wings?

) anyway yeah as far as i'm aware the flight never took place, if you get a chance to watch 'Luftwaffe '46' take it makes for informative viewing about which way the luftwaffe might have evolved given the chance.

Blenheim · Post by **Blenheim** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:08 pm

Sorry for the late response to this thread but I have only just discovered this splendid forum. For my first post I seek to reopen the discussion regarding the Ju 390 and a possible New York flight.

According to the book "German Aircraft of the Second World War" by J. R. Smith and Anthony L. Kay, the Ju 390 v2 went in January 1944 to FAGr 5 at Mont-de-Marsan for operational evaluation, from where it made the claimed flight to within 12 miles of New York.

Does anybody have any information about FAGr 5 that might enable us to lay this to rest in one way or another?

Best wishes,

Blenheim

jerijerod · Post by **jerijerod** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:14 am

If it made it all the way to 12 Miles from New York why was she not picked up by enemy radar or patrols? The only other question is why was an armed trial not attempted. With the devestation caused by the USAF on Germany surely the pilots/high command would want to hit back even if it was one stick of bombs.

All just thoughts.
Chris

Black Baron · Post by **Black Baron** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:04 pm

What would the longest flight of the Luftwaffe have been? Condors going from france out over atlantic to Norway?

Erich · Post by **Erich** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:46 am

I mentioned pure baloney because the flight is not listed in the FAGr 5 materials enclosed with Freiburg Archiv's. The unit history is being written in Germany at present by former members of the stealth Recon unit. The old news about the trip to within 12 miles was started by William Green in his a/c of the 3rd Reich back in the early 1970's...........

Black Baron · Post by **Black Baron** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:52 pm

Then there is the story of a flight from Odessa to Manchuria, & the Italians similiar flight in 1940. The Italian story was in a documentary I saw. The German flight I have no material on. Am waiting to hear back from a source on it.

Simon_G · Post by **Simon_G** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:24 am

Erich is quite right about this. From november 43 to march 44 is was undergoing trials at Prag-Rusin. Flown by Flugkapitän Pancherz!

..and Pancherz when interviewed about it in 1969 said he flew the Ju-390 transport and hinted at the other aircraft being a bomber version.

Pancherz also mentioned a flight he made by Ju-390 to South Africa.

Subsequently Pancherz has also given interviews in Spanish to a newspaper there from his home in Barcelona.

...and Erich also said:

Sorry friend but there were no heavy Ju 290/390 flights to the orient. It is all a myth !

at this thread:
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4093

However evidence is now stacking up that at least one flight by Ju-390 to the orient was not a myth at all. Just because one person does not believe in it does not mean that it's not true.

Just because it was not a part of FAGr.5 operations does not discount the operation.

ju55dk · Post by **ju55dk** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:00 pm

Simon_G wrote:
Erich is quite right about this. From november 43 to march 44 is was undergoing trials at Prag-Rusin. Flown by Flugkapitän Pancherz!
..and Pancherz when interviewed about it in 1969 said he flew the Ju-390 transport and hinted at the other aircraft being a bomber version.

Pancherz also mentioned a flight he made by Ju-390 to South Africa.

Subsequently Pancherz has also given interviews in Spanish to a newspaper there from his home in Barcelona.

...and Erich also said:

Sorry friend but there were no heavy Ju 290/390 flights to the orient. It is all a myth !
at this thread:
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4093

However evidence is now stacking up that at least one flight by Ju-390 to the orient was not a myth at all. Just because one person does not believe in it does not mean that it's not true.

Just because it was not a part of FAGr.5 operations does not discount the operation.

Funny thing that this alleged flight is not mentioned in his own Flugbuch(Logbook)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Junker

jerijerod · Post by **jerijerod** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:49 am

i was reading Axis aircraft of WWII last night and the myth came up again about the Ju 390 launching on the flight to the US from a base near Bordeux. Does this help in the argument?

cheers
chris

Simon_G · Post by **Simon_G** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:59 am

Hey Jeri,

Disclosed in Forsyth's book Messerschmitt Me-264 Amerika Bomber the actual proposal was for a flight from Brest in France. A captured Photographic technician, Unteroffizer Wolf Baumgart, was interrogated by the US Ninth Air Force and his testimony was recorded by the A.P.W.I.U. Report 44/1945. Because Baumgart was from a unit at Mount de Marsan there has been an assumption that this was the actual airfield. There is also an uncorroborated claim that the flight departed Norway and passed over USA before crossing the US coast near New York to land at Mont de Marsan, so there are a smorgesboard of claims.

Baumgart claimed the flight occurred in January 1944. Two aircraft were built and flown. In October 1943 the Ju-390 V2 second prototype was re-designated as the Ju-390 A1 (first production aircraft) Junkers records disclose that the Ju-390A was flown.

After the war Pancherz claimed only one Ju-390 prototype flew, but conveniently concealed that the second prototype was redesignated as the Ju-390 A1. The Ju-390 V1 was derelict and stripped of propellers at Dessau from November 1944 yet there were numerous records of another Ju-390 flying until April 1945. If you study photos of the two known Ju-390 aircraft RC+DA (the Ju-390 V1 prototype) and compare it with the GH+UK (Ju-390 V2 /A1) you quickly notice these are physically quite different aircraft.

The Ju-390 V1 (RC+DA):

The Ju-390 V2 / A1

In this resized, rotated and flipped image you can compare the differences side by side:

The fact that during January 1944 one Ju-390 was sent to Prague for aerial refueling trials does not disqualify it from performing the mission at all.

The Ju-390 aircraft certainly had the ability to perform such a flight since Ju-390 pilot Hans Joachim Pancherz also made a flight to Cape Town in April 1944 and disclosed this in a 1974 newspaper article. A book called the Bormann Brotherhood written by a former WW2 British intelligence officer William Stevenson cited various flights to Argentina and South Africa during WW2. The Ju-390 was taken over and flown by KG200 in February 1944. Prior to this it was flown by Versuchsverband Obd.L on trials from Mont de Marsan and Prague Letnany airfield.

With full tanks and a 10,000kg payload the Ju-390 could fly 7,400 nautical miles (13,760 km) @ long range cruise speed (232 kt). At 1800 RPM and 12,000 feet the fuel consumption was 275 US gal /hour (1650 litres/hour).

Feldgrau.net

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Re: Ju 390 flies to the US????