The Baltics are under attack

[Ada]

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/einsatzArep.htm


The point is that Baltic + Ukraine states do really little to punish war murderers. They consider every freedom fighter as the hero No matter that besides fighting with Russians or Germans they were often killing Jews (in accusation of being commies - mostly mistaken) and Poles and people of their own nation.

I've read of incedibly cruel Ukrainians and Lithuanians (guards) in concentration camps and during suppresion of Warsaw uprising. Germans were astonished with their cruelty and anger.

Such situation is for us, Poles little incomprehensible. We have own court to punish war and after war Polish criminals. And for us they stay criminals.

We could say sorry for Jedwabne, for AK-retaliatory action in Lithuania - Dubingiai, retaliatory actions in Ukraine. Cruel actions against German civilians.

Baltic countries and Ukraine- oppressed by Russians - no doubt - haven't cleaned their souls (for they deeply dirty hands during WWII) yet .

To Daniel,
Sorry, I thought that first part of "Laurent Daniel" is your first name.

[Lacplesis]

Could you be a little more specific for all I read is a repeat of one sentance with nothing to back it up. For every website you mention I could give you 10 others but I am not playing that game. The one sit mentioned CUKURS who shot Jews in Riga. He was murdered in Brazil in 1966 by the Mossad. You must have been educated during the Communist rule in Poland for you sound like other people I have met. What war criminals are you talking about that are still alive? Where did you get this information?. I can't find any information like that which would back you up or are you part of the big lie campaign that the Russians are wageing against the Baltic States?
Over 1 million soldiers served in the Waffen-SS and I don't think they all had time for war crimes.
If you really want to go after criminals then you should go after the Communist Party (I think I remember that Russia also invaded Poland in 1939) for it has murderd "over" 100 million people and I have yet to see anyone punished . Hitler is a small fry compared to that . I think I saw the name "KATYN" mentioned somewhere on this site.

[Laurent Daniel]

To Daniel,
Sorry, I thought that first part of "Laurent Daniel" is your first name.

No need to apologise, it's my mistake: When I registered, I wrote my name the French way: Family name - First name.
When drafting later my signature, I wrote my name the Anglo-Saxon way: First name - Family name and tried to modify my registration. No way
So many members here call me Laurent
Maybe a moderator can do something and register me as Daniel Laurent

[Ada]

Lacplesis

You must separate two things:
-Russian oppresion against states as Balic states, Poland Ukraine etc
I can assure You that I know about that facts as my uncle died in Charkov (the same as Katyn) and my husband's grandpa was sent to Syberia as the teenager, and my granny ehmmmm... had rather bad memory of the contact with Russian officers.
-and the violence that made those states against innocent people during WWII.
I didn't say that every freedom fighter was murderer. But that countries consider every freedom fighter as the hero. No matter how many crimes some of the made. And that is the big difference.
The scope of cruel ways of murdering people by those fereedom fighters was incerible and hard to believe. Real Asian style.


Even Simon Wiesenthal urged governments of those countries to not to cheer Waffen SS crime units.

In Your statement I see old nazi propaganda traces- every anti commi fighter is holly.

ps. to those countries fits the Bible statement : one see blade in others eye but does not see the beam in own eye...

[Lacplesis]

As I posted before. You were educated by the communist system that taught guilt by association but in the USA (there is no country called America) the law is (the present idiot in office never was educated) that you are innocent untill proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by your peers. Weisental never accused the Latvian or Estonian Waffen SS of any crime which you fail to see. To many people only see the letters SS and put them all in one barrel and that is guilt by association.
One Latvian newspaper , when Germans entered Riga , wrote "This is the first time in 600 years that a German soldier has been welcome on Latvian soil". The first attempt for volunteers only got less than 6000 so they had to draft men. Many people fail to study the situation. The Germans desperate for bodies promised the draftees that they would only fight on their soil . So when the Germans left Estonia many of the Estonians deserted instead of fighting in Latvia. When the Germans took the 15th Division to Germany somewhere about 30% deserted and fought with the 19th or went home. You have yet to prove that these men were war criminals. This is not an election so empty accusations don't apply.

[Torquez]

You were educated by the communist system that taught guilt by association but in the USA (there is no country called America) the law is (the present idiot in office never was educated) that you are innocent untill proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by your peers

Sorry but Nuremberg trials have made it clear-SS is a criminal organisation.They are other cases like this-for example members of terrorist organisations are criminals by association as well.

[Ada]

Wow...

As far as I concern in US (wow!!! you've told me that there is no such country like America - great THANKS!!!) simultaneousely to commie's propaganda behind the iron courtain there was nice witch-hunting...
Stupid irrational trials.

Besides .....


Your husband's courage and dedication to liberty will serve as a continuing source of inspiration to all those striving for freedom and self-determination.
-- letter from President Reagan to the widow of Yaroslav Stetsko, ranking OUN terrorist, murderer, and Nazi collaborator, read by retired general John Singlaub at a conference of the World Anti-Communist League, September 7, 1986.


Sorry, but I'm with touch the Simon Wiesenthal centre...

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=285915
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=286627
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=285978
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=286179
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=286129
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=286702
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=286409

Enough about Wiesenthal efforts?

[Lacplesis]

One last note. The US and British government in 1948 declared that the Latvian Legion was not a criminal organization as the SS. Until then it was "offically " not permitted to emigrate out of POW camps.
I wouldn't use a BS note from a two bit actor as a reference.
I thought that most educated people knew that everyone from the North pole to the tip of South America is an AMERICAN. My passport reads "Citizen of the United States of America". It only gives me rights in a certain area of this continent.

[Ada]

Really...
Holly Latvians...

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=946985
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=543331
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=286419
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=286234

http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/s/c ... &ct=836931

The fact that USA and GB didn't consider forgein waffen-ss as criminals...
They had own business. Murderers were anti- commie.
No more no less. Dirty politics.

We know it because we know our neighbours quite well.....

[Lacplesis]

Thank you for letting us see your mindset. The US ,English , and French in Nuremburg finding guilty those responsible for the horrors of WWII , you agree with but when they (except the Russians) find the Latvian Legion not guilty of committing any crime during its existence you accuse them of alterior motives. You are sounding more like Gobbels with each post you write. Your links reference the time frame of when the Baltic states were trying to join NATO and European Union and didn’t want publicity that would hurt its chances. None of your references once mention any crimes committed by the Legion but keep accusing it of “crimes” and I have probably visited that site long before you did .
If the Mossad hadn’t murdered Cukurs and brought him back from South America for trial , people wouldn’t be looking at him as an aviation hero. In the US people look at Charles Lindburgh as an aviation hero but if they remembered that he was a Nazi sympathizer and advocated peace with Germany and was only silenced after Pearl Harbor , many people would look differently at him. John F. Kennedy’s’ father was investigated for giving secrets to Germany before the US entered the war but it was his secretary that did it. The US celebrates Columbus Day for his finding of the New World but the majority of people forget that he holds the world record for importing slaves here and starting an epidemic that killed millions. It is selective thinking. We could go on but will leave with this “A hero in ones’ mind can be the devil in another’s”.
I would like you to show me what crimes were committed after 1942 since we agree that there were crimes committed before 1943.

[strauts]

The facts concerning Russia and the Baltic states are straightforward...after the bolshevic revolution Latvia declared independence..Russia played along by signing all kinds of agreements when they saw it to their advantage...When, in 1939, that degenerate Hitler signed the pact with Russia...russia grabbed the Baltics because according to them these countries were always Russian..so these Russians started a cleansing action which resulted in the usual Russian justice...killings and deportations...is it a wonder that when the Germans came in a year later,the latvians and estonians and lithuaninas were in a pay back mode....The silly discussion about Katyn massacres is ridiculous...of course there was a massacre and of course it was conducted by Stalin and his deciples...Russian history during the last hundred years can only be equaled by the NAZIS ..Barbaric, sadistic people in power...the results speak for themselves....And yet..even today there is Putin..trying to relive the past.....god help the russian people if he is succesful....

Moderator's Comment - the above has been edited in several places.