63rd anniversary has just passed. The Warsaw raising was one of the longest battles during the war - 63 days of fight.
A lot of official and semi-official actions are taking place now in Warsaw, and we'll try to post some interesting links and photos about what had happened and about the Raising itself.
Best Wishes
Warsaw Raising's anniversary
Moderator: John W. Howard
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Warsaw Raising's anniversary
Don't worry, be crazy ;]
Here is link to some songs that were composed during Warsaw Uprising and were sung during Warsaw Uprising:
http://www.warsawuprising.com/songs.htm
Now some info and statistic numbers from Warsaw Uprising:
I. Both sides forces:
1st August 1944 - beggining of Warsaw Rising:
Polish Home Army - 32,000 troops (18,000 in "front" units)
German forces - 15 - 16,000 troops
Maximum number of appriachable soldiers in one moment (different moments for both sides ofc):
Polish Home Army - 45 - 46,000 troops
German forces - More than 40,000 troops
Estimate total number of troops that took part in Warsaw Uprising:
Polish Home Army - 50 - 60,000 troops
German forces - At least 100,000 (many units fought in Warsaw only for few days or even few hours - they were in Warsaw only transitory, during they march from East Front towards western Poland)
II. Both sides losses:
German casualties in Warsaw Uprising:
- 10,000 KIA
- 7,000 MIA
- 9,000 WIA
- 2,000 to 5,000 POWs (most of them in few first days of the Rising) - after captured, some of them died, some of them were missed and had never been found, some of them were killed during bombardments
- 3 airplanes
- 310 tanks / self-propelled artillery / armored cars
- 4 rocket launchers
- 22 caliber 75mm artillery guns
- 340 trucks and cars
Polish casualties in Warsaw Uprising:
I. Home Army:
- More than 9,000 KIA (including some murdered troops)
- 6,200 to 9,000 MIA (including some murdered troops)
- 8,000 WIA
These figures includes:
- 6 killed Lieutenants
- 13 killed Lieutenant Colonels
- 42 killed Majors
- at least 92 killed Captains
Names - "imię", surnames - "nazwisko", or nicknames - "pseudonim" of 9,000 Home Army troops, of troops who lost their lives during Uprising, are known and You can find them here: http://www.1944.pl/index.php?a=site_wall&STEP=01
15,000 Polish Home Army troops capitulated to the Germans after the end of Rising (including 900 officers, 2,000 women). Another 6,000 Home Army troops went out of Warsaw with civilians. Rest of survivors escaped from Warsaw (most of them to Kampinos Forest) and continued their fight. Also some of civilians escaped from the city with Home Army troops.
II. Berling's Army, while helping Warsaw's Home Army, lost:
- 5,556 wounded and killed:
- In Żoliborz and Czerniaków (left bank Warsaw) - 2,297 KIA, 1,467 WIA from 9. Infantry Regiment (3. Infantry Division) and 6. Infantry Regiment (2. Infantry Division)
- While fighting in Praga (right bank Warsaw), between 10. and 14 September 1944 - 1792 KIA and WIA from 1. Infantry Division
Berling's Army didn't manage to dislodge Germans from the city, Berling's troops got to the left bank of Vistula, but after heavy fighting they had to withdraw from their bridgeheads on Czerniaków and Żoliborz.
III. Civilian losses:
At the beggining of the Rising, Warsaw had 920,000 (200,000 in Praga, 720,000 in left bank Warsaw) to 1,150,000 inhabitants
- 120,000 to 180,000 civilians were killed / murdered / died of wounds - 63,000 of them were murdered by Germans
Most of those murderred people (63,000 murderred civilians and murderred troops) were murderred by:
- SS-Sturmbrigade RONA
- Sicherheitspolizei Einsatzkommandos and Sonderkommandos from SS-Gruppenführer Heinz Reinefarth's Combat Group and other units
- Dirlewanger's Units
- 2 x Verbrennungskommando (these units were burning murderred civilians corpses)
- Schutzpolizei
- Panzer-Parachute Division "Hermann Göring"
- 25. Panzer Division (in Marymont)
- 19. Panzer Division
500,000 to 700,000 civilians were expelled from the city after the end of Rising - 55,000 to 60,000 of them were sent to concentration and death camps (13,000 of them to Auschwitz).
IV. Other losses:
- 10,455 buildings, 923 historical buildings (94%), the highest scyscrapper in Warsaw - "Prudential" (66 m to the roof), 25 churches, 14 libraries including the National Library, 81 elementary schools, 64 high schools, Warsaw University and Polytechnic buildings, most of the monuments - were destroyed.
After the end of the Rising remaining buildings were systematically destroying (German troops were ordered to destroy all that remained)
During the Rising 25% city buildings were destroyed, after the Rising Germans destroyed 35% buildings. During September Campaign 10% buildings had been destroyed. During Getto Uprising 15%. At the end of the war 85% of Warsaw buildings were destroyed - on the right bank of river Vistula higher percent of the buildings perished, than in Praga.
http://www.warsawuprising.com/songs.htm
Now some info and statistic numbers from Warsaw Uprising:
I. Both sides forces:
1st August 1944 - beggining of Warsaw Rising:
Polish Home Army - 32,000 troops (18,000 in "front" units)
German forces - 15 - 16,000 troops
Maximum number of appriachable soldiers in one moment (different moments for both sides ofc):
Polish Home Army - 45 - 46,000 troops
German forces - More than 40,000 troops
Estimate total number of troops that took part in Warsaw Uprising:
Polish Home Army - 50 - 60,000 troops
German forces - At least 100,000 (many units fought in Warsaw only for few days or even few hours - they were in Warsaw only transitory, during they march from East Front towards western Poland)
II. Both sides losses:
German casualties in Warsaw Uprising:
- 10,000 KIA
- 7,000 MIA
- 9,000 WIA
- 2,000 to 5,000 POWs (most of them in few first days of the Rising) - after captured, some of them died, some of them were missed and had never been found, some of them were killed during bombardments
- 3 airplanes
- 310 tanks / self-propelled artillery / armored cars
- 4 rocket launchers
- 22 caliber 75mm artillery guns
- 340 trucks and cars
Polish casualties in Warsaw Uprising:
I. Home Army:
- More than 9,000 KIA (including some murdered troops)
- 6,200 to 9,000 MIA (including some murdered troops)
- 8,000 WIA
These figures includes:
- 6 killed Lieutenants
- 13 killed Lieutenant Colonels
- 42 killed Majors
- at least 92 killed Captains
Names - "imię", surnames - "nazwisko", or nicknames - "pseudonim" of 9,000 Home Army troops, of troops who lost their lives during Uprising, are known and You can find them here: http://www.1944.pl/index.php?a=site_wall&STEP=01
15,000 Polish Home Army troops capitulated to the Germans after the end of Rising (including 900 officers, 2,000 women). Another 6,000 Home Army troops went out of Warsaw with civilians. Rest of survivors escaped from Warsaw (most of them to Kampinos Forest) and continued their fight. Also some of civilians escaped from the city with Home Army troops.
II. Berling's Army, while helping Warsaw's Home Army, lost:
- 5,556 wounded and killed:
- In Żoliborz and Czerniaków (left bank Warsaw) - 2,297 KIA, 1,467 WIA from 9. Infantry Regiment (3. Infantry Division) and 6. Infantry Regiment (2. Infantry Division)
- While fighting in Praga (right bank Warsaw), between 10. and 14 September 1944 - 1792 KIA and WIA from 1. Infantry Division
Berling's Army didn't manage to dislodge Germans from the city, Berling's troops got to the left bank of Vistula, but after heavy fighting they had to withdraw from their bridgeheads on Czerniaków and Żoliborz.
III. Civilian losses:
At the beggining of the Rising, Warsaw had 920,000 (200,000 in Praga, 720,000 in left bank Warsaw) to 1,150,000 inhabitants
- 120,000 to 180,000 civilians were killed / murdered / died of wounds - 63,000 of them were murdered by Germans
Most of those murderred people (63,000 murderred civilians and murderred troops) were murderred by:
- SS-Sturmbrigade RONA
- Sicherheitspolizei Einsatzkommandos and Sonderkommandos from SS-Gruppenführer Heinz Reinefarth's Combat Group and other units
- Dirlewanger's Units
- 2 x Verbrennungskommando (these units were burning murderred civilians corpses)
- Schutzpolizei
- Panzer-Parachute Division "Hermann Göring"
- 25. Panzer Division (in Marymont)
- 19. Panzer Division
500,000 to 700,000 civilians were expelled from the city after the end of Rising - 55,000 to 60,000 of them were sent to concentration and death camps (13,000 of them to Auschwitz).
IV. Other losses:
- 10,455 buildings, 923 historical buildings (94%), the highest scyscrapper in Warsaw - "Prudential" (66 m to the roof), 25 churches, 14 libraries including the National Library, 81 elementary schools, 64 high schools, Warsaw University and Polytechnic buildings, most of the monuments - were destroyed.
After the end of the Rising remaining buildings were systematically destroying (German troops were ordered to destroy all that remained)
During the Rising 25% city buildings were destroyed, after the Rising Germans destroyed 35% buildings. During September Campaign 10% buildings had been destroyed. During Getto Uprising 15%. At the end of the war 85% of Warsaw buildings were destroyed - on the right bank of river Vistula higher percent of the buildings perished, than in Praga.
Last edited by Domen121 on Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
PaŁacyk Michla: - http://www.warsawuprising.com/songs.htm - choose "Play MediaPlayer"
Original Version (below is translated version):
Pałacyk Michla, Żytnia, Wola
Bronią jej chłopcy od 'Parasola'.
Choć na 'tygrysy' mają visy –
To warszawiaki, fajne chłopaki są!
Czuwaj wiara i wytężaj słuch,
Pręż swój młody duch,
Pracując za dwóch!
Czuwaj wiara i wytężaj słuch,
Pręż swój młody duch jak stal!
A każdy chłopak chce być ranny,
Sanitariuszki – morowe panny.
A gdy cię kula trafi jaka,
Poprosisz pannę – da ci buziaka – hej!
Czuwaj wiara...
Z tyłu za linią dekowniki,
Intendentura, różne umrzyki,
Gotują zupę, czarną kawę,
I tym sposobem - walczą za sprawę - hej!
Czuwaj wiara...
Za to dowództwo jest morowe,
bo w pierwszej linii nadstawia głowę,
a najmorowszy z przełożonych,
to jest nasz "Miecio" w kółko golony - hej!
Czuwaj wiara...
Wiara się bije, wiara śpiewa,
Szkopy się złoszczą, krew ich zalewa,
Różnych sposobów się imają,
Co chwila "szafę" nam posyłają - hej!
Czuwaj wiara...
Lecz na nic "szafa" i granaty,
za każdym razem dostają baty
i co dzień się przybliża chwila,
że zwyciężymy! i do cywila - hej!
Czuwaj wiaro i wytężaj słuch ...
Translation:
(Pałacyk = tiny Palace, Żytnia = street in Warsaw, Wola = district in Warsaw, ViS = polish pistol, "szafa" / "wardrobe" = kind of German armored vehicle)
Pałacyk Michla, Żytnia, Wola
It's defended by guys from "Parasol",
Though they have only ViSes for Tigers -
They are Warsawians, best guys they are!
Be on the alert and strain your hearing,
Be always strong,
Working as two men!
Be on the alert and strain your hearing,
Be always strong as steel!
And every boy wants to be wounded,
Cause our nurses - gorgeous ladies
And if a bloody bullet hit you,
Ask gently lady - she will kiss you - hey!
Be on the alert...
Behind the lines only marauders,
Commisariat, different deceaseds,
They cook some soup & drink black coffee -
And this way they fight for cause - hey!
Be on the alert...
But our commanders are gorgeous,
Because they fight on the first line!
And the most gorgeous from commanders,
Is our "Miecio", who cut all his hair - hey!
Be on the alert...
People are fighting, People are singing,
Jerries are angry, their blood is up,
They're trying different tricks,
Each minute they send a "wardrobe" to us - hey!
Be on the alert...
But their "wardrobe" and grenades are nothing,
Each time, they got a scolding!
And every day it's closer and closer,
Our victory - then we'll be back homes - hey!
Be on the alert...
Warszawskie Dzieci:
Nie złamie wolnych żadna klęska,
Nie strwoży śmiałych żaden trud,
Pójdziemy razem do zwycięstwa,
Gdy ramię w ramie stanie lud.
Warszawskie dzieci pójdziemy w bój,
Za każdy kamień twój stolico damy krew.
Warszawskie dzieci pójdziemy w bój,
Gdy padnie rozkaz twój,
Poniesiem wrogom gniew!
Powiśle, Wola i Mokotów,
Ulica każda, każdy dom,
Gdy padnie pierwszy strzał bądź gotów,
Jak w ręku Boga złoty grom.
...
Warsaw's Children:
No defeat will break freeman,
No difficulty will fear braveman,
We'll go together to the victory,
When people will stand arm to arm
Warsaw's children we're going to strike,
For every stone of you, capital we will fight
Warsaw's children we're going to strike,
When your order will come,
We'll send enemies our fury!
Powiśle, Wola and Mokotów,
Every street, every house,
When the first shot come, be ready,
Like a golden bolt in the hand of God.
...
Original Version (below is translated version):
Pałacyk Michla, Żytnia, Wola
Bronią jej chłopcy od 'Parasola'.
Choć na 'tygrysy' mają visy –
To warszawiaki, fajne chłopaki są!
Czuwaj wiara i wytężaj słuch,
Pręż swój młody duch,
Pracując za dwóch!
Czuwaj wiara i wytężaj słuch,
Pręż swój młody duch jak stal!
A każdy chłopak chce być ranny,
Sanitariuszki – morowe panny.
A gdy cię kula trafi jaka,
Poprosisz pannę – da ci buziaka – hej!
Czuwaj wiara...
Z tyłu za linią dekowniki,
Intendentura, różne umrzyki,
Gotują zupę, czarną kawę,
I tym sposobem - walczą za sprawę - hej!
Czuwaj wiara...
Za to dowództwo jest morowe,
bo w pierwszej linii nadstawia głowę,
a najmorowszy z przełożonych,
to jest nasz "Miecio" w kółko golony - hej!
Czuwaj wiara...
Wiara się bije, wiara śpiewa,
Szkopy się złoszczą, krew ich zalewa,
Różnych sposobów się imają,
Co chwila "szafę" nam posyłają - hej!
Czuwaj wiara...
Lecz na nic "szafa" i granaty,
za każdym razem dostają baty
i co dzień się przybliża chwila,
że zwyciężymy! i do cywila - hej!
Czuwaj wiaro i wytężaj słuch ...
Translation:
(Pałacyk = tiny Palace, Żytnia = street in Warsaw, Wola = district in Warsaw, ViS = polish pistol, "szafa" / "wardrobe" = kind of German armored vehicle)
Pałacyk Michla, Żytnia, Wola
It's defended by guys from "Parasol",
Though they have only ViSes for Tigers -
They are Warsawians, best guys they are!
Be on the alert and strain your hearing,
Be always strong,
Working as two men!
Be on the alert and strain your hearing,
Be always strong as steel!
And every boy wants to be wounded,
Cause our nurses - gorgeous ladies
And if a bloody bullet hit you,
Ask gently lady - she will kiss you - hey!
Be on the alert...
Behind the lines only marauders,
Commisariat, different deceaseds,
They cook some soup & drink black coffee -
And this way they fight for cause - hey!
Be on the alert...
But our commanders are gorgeous,
Because they fight on the first line!
And the most gorgeous from commanders,
Is our "Miecio", who cut all his hair - hey!
Be on the alert...
People are fighting, People are singing,
Jerries are angry, their blood is up,
They're trying different tricks,
Each minute they send a "wardrobe" to us - hey!
Be on the alert...
But their "wardrobe" and grenades are nothing,
Each time, they got a scolding!
And every day it's closer and closer,
Our victory - then we'll be back homes - hey!
Be on the alert...
Warszawskie Dzieci:
Nie złamie wolnych żadna klęska,
Nie strwoży śmiałych żaden trud,
Pójdziemy razem do zwycięstwa,
Gdy ramię w ramie stanie lud.
Warszawskie dzieci pójdziemy w bój,
Za każdy kamień twój stolico damy krew.
Warszawskie dzieci pójdziemy w bój,
Gdy padnie rozkaz twój,
Poniesiem wrogom gniew!
Powiśle, Wola i Mokotów,
Ulica każda, każdy dom,
Gdy padnie pierwszy strzał bądź gotów,
Jak w ręku Boga złoty grom.
...
Warsaw's Children:
No defeat will break freeman,
No difficulty will fear braveman,
We'll go together to the victory,
When people will stand arm to arm
Warsaw's children we're going to strike,
For every stone of you, capital we will fight
Warsaw's children we're going to strike,
When your order will come,
We'll send enemies our fury!
Powiśle, Wola and Mokotów,
Every street, every house,
When the first shot come, be ready,
Like a golden bolt in the hand of God.
...
After a quick trawl round some sites I notice the figure for German losses in the rising seems to have risen from 10,000 dead and missing which years ago was commonly used to 17,000. Could anyone please tell me what is the source for the 17,000. I believe von dem Bach in a communication with Himmler gave German losses as about 1,525 dead but this may not include the auxilary formations.
Hi Glyndower,
Yeap, that figures were given on Himmler's desk in the morning on 5th August - last Polish units left the city in the evening that day, as well as many German POWs were liberated in the evening on 5th August. Polish commanders were still sending orders to Polish units which were still in the city, although
Its very easy to explain. 10,000 German troops were killed in action. 7,000 that were missed in action had never been found, so they were all recognized as dead.
Remember that some of those losses Germans suffered during fights with regular Polish Army - Berling's Army.
Berling's Army lost on the left bank Warsaw (they crossed Vistula and were fighting on the left bank!) - in Żoliborz and Czerniaków bridgeheads - 2,297 dead and 1,467 WIA - soldiers from Berling's Army were fighting on the Western bank of Vistula for 8 long days and nights - after 8 days last of them withdrawed to the right bank or joined Home Army forces
Berling decised to help Warsaw on his own - because he didnt have order to help Warsaw - he had order NOT to help Warsaw! But he and his soldiers were Poles, so they couldnt just wait and do nothing, looking at burning Warsaw
On Praga, between 10. and 14. September, Berling's Army lost another 1792 dead and WIA
So total German all units losses of 9,000 WIA and KIA men are for shure not the right figure
Figures that Erich von dem Bach gave to Himmler in his letter, were given on Himmler's desk on 5th October 1944 - in such short time after the end of Uprising, it was impossible to establish all units losses - first reason is that many of German POWs were liberated just on 5th or 6th October - when last Polish units left Warsaw - so von dem Bach couldnt know what happened with German POWs till the last hours! Why didnt he write anything about POWs and MIAs in his letter to Himmler?
Second thing is that what Glyndower wrote:
Third thing is that MOST PART of units which participated in Uprising, when the Uprising finally ended, were far away from Warsaw - in western Poland. But their MIAs, POWs and corpses of their troops were still in Warsaw!
Next thing is that von dem Bach was a bandit and a lier who tried to hide many facts about the Rising before his commanders, and - especcialy - BRITISH AND AMERICAN public opinion - because American and British commanders declared that if German Army will still murder Polish Home Army soldiers and Polish civilians, they will do same thing with German POWs. They had declared this in half of September 1944, but German soldiers were still murdering and burning all on their way - but von dem Bach tried to hide this - tried to hide scale of German war crimes before his commanders and before Allies. He probably also tried to hide real German losses.
His letter to Himmler cant be valuable because he didnt mention about MIA and POWs in it - and its impossible that German army hadnt got MIAs during Uprising - we also know that few thousands of German troops were captured by Poles during Uprising - mainly during first few days.
Many of German soldiers who were captured by Berling's soldiers in Praga were probably taken to Siberia and returned home after the end of the war or never returned...
Regards
Not 1,525 KIA, but 1570 - 73 KIA officers, 1453 KIA NCOs and soldiers, 44 KIA foreigners in German Army, 242 WIA officers, 7,054 WIA NCOs and soldiers, 178 WIA foreigners - total 9044 casualtiesI believe von dem Bach in a communication with Himmler gave German losses as about 1,525 dead but this may not include the auxilary formations.
Yeap, that figures were given on Himmler's desk in the morning on 5th August - last Polish units left the city in the evening that day, as well as many German POWs were liberated in the evening on 5th August. Polish commanders were still sending orders to Polish units which were still in the city, although
Source for 17,000 is same as source for 10,000 - von dem Bach said this after war in 1947.I notice the figure for German losses in the rising seems to have risen from 10,000 dead and missing which years ago was commonly used to 17,000. Could anyone please tell me what is the source for the 17,000.
Its very easy to explain. 10,000 German troops were killed in action. 7,000 that were missed in action had never been found, so they were all recognized as dead.
Same man - Emil von dem Bach-Żelewski, in 1947, after the end of war said that all German (and foreign in German Army) units which were fighting in Uprising lost 10,000 KIA, 7,000 MIA and 9,000 WIAI believe von dem Bach in a communication with Himmler
Remember that some of those losses Germans suffered during fights with regular Polish Army - Berling's Army.
Berling's Army lost on the left bank Warsaw (they crossed Vistula and were fighting on the left bank!) - in Żoliborz and Czerniaków bridgeheads - 2,297 dead and 1,467 WIA - soldiers from Berling's Army were fighting on the Western bank of Vistula for 8 long days and nights - after 8 days last of them withdrawed to the right bank or joined Home Army forces
Berling decised to help Warsaw on his own - because he didnt have order to help Warsaw - he had order NOT to help Warsaw! But he and his soldiers were Poles, so they couldnt just wait and do nothing, looking at burning Warsaw
On Praga, between 10. and 14. September, Berling's Army lost another 1792 dead and WIA
So total German all units losses of 9,000 WIA and KIA men are for shure not the right figure
Figures that Erich von dem Bach gave to Himmler in his letter, were given on Himmler's desk on 5th October 1944 - in such short time after the end of Uprising, it was impossible to establish all units losses - first reason is that many of German POWs were liberated just on 5th or 6th October - when last Polish units left Warsaw - so von dem Bach couldnt know what happened with German POWs till the last hours! Why didnt he write anything about POWs and MIAs in his letter to Himmler?
Second thing is that what Glyndower wrote:
I think this may not include even losses from many units from different branches of Werhmacht - he probably included only some of units that participated in Uprising and still were in Warsaw on 5th October - or he just lied about casualties and decreased them - even if he didnt lie, he just couldnt know exact casualties of all units, including MIA, POWs, KIA, WIA, died of wounds, etc. - it was to early after the end of Uprising when he wrote his letter - in the morning on 5th October many thousands of Home Army soldiers were in the city, as well as German POWs and Home Army commanders (Home Army headquarters were still giving orders to their units on 5th October, although casefire was signed on 2nd October!!!)German losses as about 1,525 dead but this may not include the auxilary formations.
Third thing is that MOST PART of units which participated in Uprising, when the Uprising finally ended, were far away from Warsaw - in western Poland. But their MIAs, POWs and corpses of their troops were still in Warsaw!
Next thing is that von dem Bach was a bandit and a lier who tried to hide many facts about the Rising before his commanders, and - especcialy - BRITISH AND AMERICAN public opinion - because American and British commanders declared that if German Army will still murder Polish Home Army soldiers and Polish civilians, they will do same thing with German POWs. They had declared this in half of September 1944, but German soldiers were still murdering and burning all on their way - but von dem Bach tried to hide this - tried to hide scale of German war crimes before his commanders and before Allies. He probably also tried to hide real German losses.
His letter to Himmler cant be valuable because he didnt mention about MIA and POWs in it - and its impossible that German army hadnt got MIAs during Uprising - we also know that few thousands of German troops were captured by Poles during Uprising - mainly during first few days.
Many of German soldiers who were captured by Berling's soldiers in Praga were probably taken to Siberia and returned home after the end of the war or never returned...
Regards
Home Army had some AFVs - some of them they captured and some of them they made.
Home Army made AFV "Kubuś" ("James") - it was made during only 13 days of Uprising, by two Polish engineers - Walerian Bieliecki "Jan" ("John") and Edmund Frydrych "Kaczka" ("Duck"). Home Army soldiers also captured many German Army AFVs and were using them succesfully against old owners.
"Kubuś" photographs:
http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/poja ... _kubus.htm
Some of Armored Fighting Vehicles which were captured and were used by Home Army
Sd.Kfz.251/1 Ausf.D captured from SS "Viking" Panzer Division on 14. August 1944 on Bartoszewicza street, while it was transporting heavilly wounded German soldiers - it was called by Poles "Jaś" ("Johnny")
Pz.Kpfw. V "Panther" Ausf. G Sd.Kfz. 171
Pz.Kpfw. V "Panther" - "Pudel" ("Poodle")
Pz.Kpfw. V "Panther" - "Zośka"
Pz.Kpfw. VI "Tiger" (it was damaged very quickly after captured - by young Polish scout who was ordered to guard it... and started to play it...)
Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. H - Sd.Kfz. 161/2
Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer" - "Chwat" ("Budy")
Sd.Kfz. 251/1 Ausf. D - "Szary Wilk" ("Grey Wolf")
Sd.Kfz. 251/1 Ausf. D - "Starówka"
Panzerspäwagen BA 202(r)
Schwere Ladungsträger B IV (Borgward) Sd.Kfz. 301 Ausf. C
Russian BA-20 (captured from old Czechoslovakian embassy)
Many different armored cars from banks (before Uprising they were used by Germans to transport money or gold)
On list above there are only AFVs which were using as mobile vehicles (were not heavilly damaged and were able to move)/
Many of captured AFVs were not used because they were damaged or destroyed - if captured AFV wasn't able to move - Home Army soldiers were taking every part of its equipment (including its gun)- and everything that could be taken and could be usefull - and were burning and destroying rest of it - simple.
Also many other heavy equipment were captured, for example some heavy artillery guns.
Home Army made AFV "Kubuś" ("James") - it was made during only 13 days of Uprising, by two Polish engineers - Walerian Bieliecki "Jan" ("John") and Edmund Frydrych "Kaczka" ("Duck"). Home Army soldiers also captured many German Army AFVs and were using them succesfully against old owners.
"Kubuś" photographs:
http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/poja ... _kubus.htm
Some of Armored Fighting Vehicles which were captured and were used by Home Army
Sd.Kfz.251/1 Ausf.D captured from SS "Viking" Panzer Division on 14. August 1944 on Bartoszewicza street, while it was transporting heavilly wounded German soldiers - it was called by Poles "Jaś" ("Johnny")
Pz.Kpfw. V "Panther" Ausf. G Sd.Kfz. 171
Pz.Kpfw. V "Panther" - "Pudel" ("Poodle")
Pz.Kpfw. V "Panther" - "Zośka"
Pz.Kpfw. VI "Tiger" (it was damaged very quickly after captured - by young Polish scout who was ordered to guard it... and started to play it...)
Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. H - Sd.Kfz. 161/2
Jagdpanzer 38(t) "Hetzer" - "Chwat" ("Budy")
Sd.Kfz. 251/1 Ausf. D - "Szary Wilk" ("Grey Wolf")
Sd.Kfz. 251/1 Ausf. D - "Starówka"
Panzerspäwagen BA 202(r)
Schwere Ladungsträger B IV (Borgward) Sd.Kfz. 301 Ausf. C
Russian BA-20 (captured from old Czechoslovakian embassy)
Many different armored cars from banks (before Uprising they were used by Germans to transport money or gold)
On list above there are only AFVs which were using as mobile vehicles (were not heavilly damaged and were able to move)/
Many of captured AFVs were not used because they were damaged or destroyed - if captured AFV wasn't able to move - Home Army soldiers were taking every part of its equipment (including its gun)- and everything that could be taken and could be usefull - and were burning and destroying rest of it - simple.
Also many other heavy equipment were captured, for example some heavy artillery guns.
Last edited by Domen121 on Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TPMM
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- Location: Wolomin, Near Warsaw, Poland
However, uprisers didn't manage to capture neither Flakvierlings nor Flak cannons, that would have been really useful during German air attacks.
Flakvierlings were a formidable weapon, that prevented AK (Home Army) from capturing the bridges. Imagine yourself: how would you knock out entrenched quad 20mm cannon, having only a very few rifles per company and great shortage of ammo?
Flakvierlings were a formidable weapon, that prevented AK (Home Army) from capturing the bridges. Imagine yourself: how would you knock out entrenched quad 20mm cannon, having only a very few rifles per company and great shortage of ammo?
Don't worry, be crazy ;]
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TPMM
- Contributor
- Posts: 334
- Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:41 am
- Location: Wolomin, Near Warsaw, Poland
4 VIII 2007 - this is a date of yearly launched massive reenactment operation. Reeancors from many groups are trying to recall the most heroic episodes of the battle, that took place in this district.
Fotoreportage: http://www.prawy.pl/?dz=galeria&cat=276
Fotoreportage: http://www.prawy.pl/?dz=galeria&cat=276
Don't worry, be crazy ;]
Thank you for the detailed reply, but it set me thinking and having nothing to do at this time I thought I would look at the figures more closely.
Just about every source on the rising or history of WW2 gives the same figures of about 26,000 on German losses almost without question. That the figure given to Himmler by Bach-Zalevski on the 5th three days after fighting had ceased and when the Poles would have told how many prisoners they were holding differs by such a huge ammount from the figure Bach-Zalevski gives three years later passes without comment yet it is odd.
The figure of 9,000 wounded given in 1947 is the same figure as the one for killed but everyone knows that all armies suffer more wounded than killed. It has been said that the Poles were such good marksmen that they killed Germans in a ratio of 1 killed to 1 wounded but I find this hard to believe. For the killed and wounded figure to be the same or worse suggests an army that is unable to care for its wounded of fights to the death as the Japanese did. I do not think the Germans at Warsaw fall into either catagory.
The figure of 7,000 missing for the German side is also odd they were after the first few days usualy advancing so would at the end of the day be in control of the fought over territory and able eventualy to recover their bodies while the Poles could not. The massive air and artillery bombardment which could have covered bodies fell on the Poles. The Poles could be expected to have a large number of missing and indeed they do.
The 9,000 dead figure makes no sense if Bach-Zalevski gave a figure of 1,570 Germans and foreigners (west european SS volunteers?) on the 5th. It could be that this figure may be only for regular German and SS units and excludes the sweepings up who fought in Warsaw. Even if deaths for units such as Direlwangers are included the figure from 1944 and the one from 1947 are so far apart that one of them is probably a lie, but which one.
The Axis History Factbook (easily found) says that Kaminski's unit lost 500 killed and wounded in Warsaw and a further 100 killed and 200 wounded in the Kampinos forest near Warsaw. The losses for Direlwanger's unit was about 2,700 no breakdown between killed and wounded. A Polish/American website http://www.poloniatoday.com (go to serials) does oddly give the only breakdown for German casualties I have been able to find apart from Bach-Zelevski's controversial one. It gives German casualties till August 27th as 91 officers and 3,770 men of these 28 officers and 629 men were killed and total German casualties of about 2,000 dead with 9,000 wounded. Those were the only figures I could find but if correct and they may well not be they seem to indicate much lower casualties than the 1947 figures.
It is possible that three years later Bach-Zelevski exaggerated German casualties at Warsaw for reasons we can never be sure of. I think he returned to the city in 1947 to give evidence in a trial was it then he gave the high figures?.
Another large city which had to be stormed from a determined defender was Manilla in early 1945. The city was held by a force of about 17,000 well armed men and the civilian population was not allowed to leave. The attackers were certainly of better quality than most of the forces assaulting Warsaw and able to bring even greater fire power to bear. The way the city was captured had similarities with Warsaw in that the Americans blasted the Japanese out even though it meant destroying much of the city. Some accounts give civilian casualties as high as 100,000 with all the defenders killed, interestingly the assaulting forces casualties were about 1,100 killed and 5,500 wounded.
Just about every source on the rising or history of WW2 gives the same figures of about 26,000 on German losses almost without question. That the figure given to Himmler by Bach-Zalevski on the 5th three days after fighting had ceased and when the Poles would have told how many prisoners they were holding differs by such a huge ammount from the figure Bach-Zalevski gives three years later passes without comment yet it is odd.
The figure of 9,000 wounded given in 1947 is the same figure as the one for killed but everyone knows that all armies suffer more wounded than killed. It has been said that the Poles were such good marksmen that they killed Germans in a ratio of 1 killed to 1 wounded but I find this hard to believe. For the killed and wounded figure to be the same or worse suggests an army that is unable to care for its wounded of fights to the death as the Japanese did. I do not think the Germans at Warsaw fall into either catagory.
The figure of 7,000 missing for the German side is also odd they were after the first few days usualy advancing so would at the end of the day be in control of the fought over territory and able eventualy to recover their bodies while the Poles could not. The massive air and artillery bombardment which could have covered bodies fell on the Poles. The Poles could be expected to have a large number of missing and indeed they do.
The 9,000 dead figure makes no sense if Bach-Zalevski gave a figure of 1,570 Germans and foreigners (west european SS volunteers?) on the 5th. It could be that this figure may be only for regular German and SS units and excludes the sweepings up who fought in Warsaw. Even if deaths for units such as Direlwangers are included the figure from 1944 and the one from 1947 are so far apart that one of them is probably a lie, but which one.
The Axis History Factbook (easily found) says that Kaminski's unit lost 500 killed and wounded in Warsaw and a further 100 killed and 200 wounded in the Kampinos forest near Warsaw. The losses for Direlwanger's unit was about 2,700 no breakdown between killed and wounded. A Polish/American website http://www.poloniatoday.com (go to serials) does oddly give the only breakdown for German casualties I have been able to find apart from Bach-Zelevski's controversial one. It gives German casualties till August 27th as 91 officers and 3,770 men of these 28 officers and 629 men were killed and total German casualties of about 2,000 dead with 9,000 wounded. Those were the only figures I could find but if correct and they may well not be they seem to indicate much lower casualties than the 1947 figures.
It is possible that three years later Bach-Zelevski exaggerated German casualties at Warsaw for reasons we can never be sure of. I think he returned to the city in 1947 to give evidence in a trial was it then he gave the high figures?.
Another large city which had to be stormed from a determined defender was Manilla in early 1945. The city was held by a force of about 17,000 well armed men and the civilian population was not allowed to leave. The attackers were certainly of better quality than most of the forces assaulting Warsaw and able to bring even greater fire power to bear. The way the city was captured had similarities with Warsaw in that the Americans blasted the Japanese out even though it meant destroying much of the city. Some accounts give civilian casualties as high as 100,000 with all the defenders killed, interestingly the assaulting forces casualties were about 1,100 killed and 5,500 wounded.