Stalingrad '03:The battle over a name

RSW · Post by **RSW** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 6:43 pm

Greetings Forum readers!
In the Toronto Star yesterday, there was a full page article on the Stalingrad debate. If your not up on your significant German battles that changed the war, tomorrow is the 60th Anniversary of the end of the seige. For a great story about how Stalingrad veterans want the city of Volgogard renamed in honor of their sacrifices in that great battle, check out this web site, http://www.thestar.com. Once at the site, just type in Stalingrad, and enjoy the story!

Best regards!
Robert

Commissar D, the Evil · Sun Feb 02, 2003 7:17 pm

It should be Stalingrad! Why should Russians disavow the past heroism of their army. Volgagrad--phoooey! And it was Comrade Stalin that saved the Socialist state from dissolusion by ordering the city to be held. The entire focus of the battle was the name "Stalingrad". The soldiers are right.
Best Regards, David

mikerock · Post by **mikerock** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 7:52 pm

But what of the reputation of Stalin?

The purges, starvations and other aspects of his totalitarian rule are what people are against. Stalin killed as many Russians as the Germans did, maybe more. Renaming the city Stalingrad is indirect praise of his form of rule.

--Mike

Commissar D, the Evil · Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:26 pm

No, it praises the men who fought in this fight. Maybe we should rename Cold Harbor to Sunnydale because it's a more pleasant name. Cheers, David

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:45 pm

Now, I don't know but changing it's name might have a positive side.

A liitle girl and her father visit 'Stalingrad', 2003.

Little girl "Daddy, who was Stalin?"

Daddy, "He was a very bad man who killed lots of people!"

Little girl, "So why did they name a city after him?"

Daddy, "So that no-one forgets what he did!".

or possibly there is a darker side?

Perhaps the mighty Uber Soldat Cyborg army long secreted underground since 1945 under castle Wolfenstein are programmed to attack 'Stalingrad' and not this Vulgargrad?

I should go now, I have already said too much. My wife is beginning to suspect!

mikerock · Post by **mikerock** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:06 am

Well if we follow that logic, then we should rename Berlin Hitlerburg to remind people of the brave soldiers who defended that city in the name of the Fuhrer. And then when people ask who Hitler is we tell them he was a bad man who killed millions of people based on crackpot racial theories.

--Mike

adrian · Post by **adrian** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:07 am

How about we compromise?

Stalgarad. Its got a ring to it!

adrian

Santiago · Post by **Santiago** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 8:25 am

I suppose that it´s better, that the city keep the name of Volgograd....
Stalingrad it´s the name of the death of millions of people..... And the name of one dictator.... Bad feelings.

Regards,

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:46 am

mikerock wrote:Well if we follow that logic, then we should rename Berlin Hitlerburg to remind people of the brave soldiers who defended that city in the name of the Fuhrer. And then when people ask who Hitler is we tell them he was a bad man who killed millions of people based on crackpot racial theories.

--Mike

You say that like it's a bad thing!

newbie · Post by **newbie** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:56 am

Stalin's regime killed tens of millions of people.

Stalin DID NOT win the war, in fact maybe if not Stalin, USSR may have lost less soldiers and maybe even won "more efficiently". Stalin brought no good to USSR, Russia or Europe. Whatever was achieved in industrialization age during Stalin was achieved with idiotic methods and sacrifices. Same applies to WWII.

Jez · Post by **Jez** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 12:33 pm

Hey, I wonder what a father would tell his little kids about who the guy was Kennedy Airport was named after?

A pervert who took speed?

Nice.

Regards, Jez

mikerock · Post by **mikerock** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:43 pm

Jez wrote:Hey, I wonder what a father would tell his little kids about who the guy was Kennedy Airport was named after?

A pervert who took speed?

Nice.

Regards, Jez

I thought he was a cocaine addict, or was that Frank Sinatra? Anyways, I digress.

--Mike

Commissar D, the Evil · Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:05 pm

Hey, the city was named Stalingrad before the battle that made it immortal. It's only because of you PC types who insisted that the name be changed, despite the contributions of the beloved Comrade Stalin in halting the Nazi tide, that anyone ever thought of "Volgagrad". But, no matter what they call it, it will always be STALINGRAD!!!!
Cheers,
D

RSW · Post by **RSW** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 9:13 pm

Today, on the 60th anniversary of the Soviet Union's victory at Stalingrad, Russia honored the veterans of the grisliest-and arguably the pivotal-battle of World War II with wreathes, speeches, a military parade and a spwecial payment of 1,500 rubles, or a little less than $50 each. The New York Times today ran a great article which shows both sides of the debate, http://www.nyt.com. One can argue both pro/con about the renaming of the city, but like all wars and conflicts, the soldiers who fought them always get the end of the shaft in the end. Veteran's fought for Stalingrad, not Volgogard! The possibility of having the name restored is possible, it is soon heading to the Russian Federal Parliament for debate. One amusing side note is President Putin who is against the name swap, but at the ceremony today, significantly or not, he closed his remarks by referring to them as "Stalingraders". --- VERY INTERESTING!!!
The battle at Stalingrad might have ended 60 years ago, but the fires still burn today.
Best regards,
Robert