The Soviet Navy

Freiritter · Post by **Freiritter** » Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:51 pm

I don't hear much about the Soviet Navy in WWII. I was wondering, how strong of a combat potential did the Soviet Navy have in the war? Was it ever able to contest the control of the Black, Baltic or Barents Sea from the Germans and their allied fleets? What did the Soviet Navy do during WWII?

dragos03 · Post by **dragos03** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:36 am

In the Black Sea they had an overwhelming superiority over the Axis fleet. Axis largest ships in the Black Sea were the 4 Romanian destroyers.

Freiritter · Post by **Freiritter** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:38 am

Were there any actions between the Romanian destroyers and the Soviet Black Sea Fleet?

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:34 am

Hi Freiritter,

From memory, there was one surface action on (I think) 26 June 1941.

A Soviet force of at least one cruiser and four detroyers and flotilla leaders bombarded the main Romanian port of Constanta at dawn. Because of Soviet bombing the Romanian destroyers were dispersed outside the port. They could see the Soviet flotilla leaders Kharkov and Moskva (I think) against the dawn, but they were themselves hidden from view against the darkened coastline.

The Moskva and Kharkov passed through a Romanian minefield without damage and shelled oil depots with some success. The two Romanian destroyers in range returned fire, and believe they scored one hit on Moskva. The Russians were also under fire from a powerful German coastal battery and turned back through the minefield. This time Moskva hit a mine and sank.

The German battery also claimed to have hit Moskva, but the consensus is that it was the mine that did the damage. Romanian MTBs picked up the Soviet survivors.

Cheers,

Sid.

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:35 am

P.S. Romanian destroyers sank several Soviet submarines.

dragos03 · Post by **dragos03** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:00 pm

In the Constanta action, other Soviet ships were also damaged by mines (including the cruiser). The Soviets had another squadron (including a battleship) waiting at some distance to attack if the first attack was succesful.
For the rest of the war, Romanian destroyers were in action only with Soviet submaries and aircraft.
The rest of the Romanian fleet (submarines, monitors, gunboats and torpedo-boats) were also involved in some actions, if you want i can give you details.

Freiritter · Post by **Freiritter** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:11 pm

That would be good. Was the nature of the Romanian Navy's actions inthe Black Sea more offensive or defensive? Were Romanian ships superior to the Soviet ships? Did the Germans ever support Romanian operations with MTBs or U-boats?

dragos03 · Post by **dragos03** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:30 pm

I will give you the details in one or two days, when i have more time.
The operations were of course defensive (mainly escorting convoys) because of the huge superiority of the Soviet Black Sea Fleet. I will give you the numbers in my next post.
The Germans had some MTBs and U-boats in the Black Sea. All Axis ships were under German command (Admiral Schwarze Meer).

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:44 am

Hi Freiritter,

There is an entire chapter in "Third Axis, Fourth Ally" by Axworthy, Scafes and Craciunoiu devoted to the Romanian navy in WWII. It includes a couple of maps and drawings of all the naval vessels and most of the main merchant ships. There were also articles in the annual "Warship" during the mid-1990s on Romanian submarines and minelayers. All are in English.

In Romanian you want the first two volumes published by Nikolai Koslinski and Raymond Stanescu in the late 1990s. They were naval lieutenants in the war. The former's father and grandfather had both commanded the Romanian Navy and the latter was in the crows nest of one of the destroyers during the action with the Moskva! I personally think that their work is the best on any of the three Romanian armed services.

I will leave Dragos to give you details of the various actions.

Cheers,

Sid.

dragos03 · Post by **dragos03** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 3:15 pm

Sid, if you have read all this books then you know better than me. I've never read a book about Romanian Royal Navy, only some chapters in other books.
So i will let you give the details and i'm interested too. How did you get that info?

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:29 am

Hi Dragos,

I have both books.

I would suggest you try the Romanian National Library or the Library of the Museul Militar National in Bucharest or the Library of the Naval Museum in Constanta. The publisher of "Modelism" is a naval enthusiast and must have a copy. Koslinski and Stanescu both lived in Bucharest in the 1990s. Koslinski wrote a lot for "RIM" so the Editura Militara can probably tell you where to get hold of him.

I highly recommend both books.

The only books of comparable standard on other services are those by Adrian Pandea and Eftimie Ardeleanu on the Romanian Army in the Crimea and at Stalingrad. The air force books seem to be dominated by subjective memoirs rather than objective facts.

Cheers,

Sid.

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:57 am

To answer Ritters initial question: the Soviet Navy did not very much during WW2. The Baltic fleet supported the retreating army forces in 1941 and then was blockaded in Kronstadt for several years, with only the submarines playing a somewhat important role after the siege was lifted in 1944. The Black Sea fleet was the most active part of the navy, but after the "Charkov" affair of 1943, Stalin put an end to all major operations (in fact, it seems that the Luftwaffe was a far greater danger to the Soviet Navy than the few Axis vessels in the Black Sea, and even the Heer nearly strangled the Black Sea fleet by taking most of the major ports in 1941/42). The Arctic and the Pacific fleet remained almost inactive during the war.

Freiritter · Post by **Freiritter** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:27 pm

Really, I would've thought that the Northern Fleet could've helped with the Lend-Lease convoys on the Murmansk runs, though I have no idea of the Soviet Navy's size and/or composition during the war. Did they mostly operate ships from the old Czarist Navy?

dragos03 · Post by **dragos03** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:01 pm

Sid, do you speak Romanian? You seem to be well informed. I am glad to see westerners interested in our history.
I know i can get the books from the library, i was just wondering how did you get them.

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:52 am

Hi Dragos,

I don't actually speak Romanian, but I did Latin, French and Spanish at school and university. This makes written Romanian pretty accessible if one has a dictionary.

If more Western Europeans were aware that Romanian was an accessible Romance language, and not Slavic or Hungarian, the country's history might be better known.

I am regularly sent books by friends in Romania in exchange for books from the UK.

Cheers,

Sid.