Obergefreiter with more than 6 years of service

[Blitzmädchen]

What was the reason that the German army had the rank Obergefreiter with more than 6 years of service and Stabsgefreiter.

A Obergefreiter could be promoted to Stabsgefreiter after 5 years.

Was it a rank that was used for those who could not become Stabsgefreiters.

Kristina

[A.J.Lö]

It is similar reason to having many C.S.M. and only one R.S.M., the R.S.M. is in charge of them and all other N.C.O.'s.

[Blitzmädchen]

It is similar reason to having many C.S.M. and only one R.S.M., the R.S.M. is in charge of them and all other N.C.O.'s.

I have no idea what you mean?

Kristina

[A.J.Lö]

Sorry I explain, for example:

CSM=company seargent major
RSM=regimental seargent major

therefore consider Obergefreiter as many in a battalion like csm and only one Stabsgefreiter in the same body of men, the Ober rank is Ober=above all other gefreiter and the Stabs rank like a overall staff rank in command of both all gefreiter ranks and all other lower ranks in terms of training, discipline questions and liason to higher ranks.

I hope this will help you understand why there are only 1 Stabs rank but many Ober ranks.



Andreas

[Blitzmädchen]

Hello Andreas

I know what a RSM/CSM is.

Gefreiter, Obergefreiter and Stabsgefreiter a not NCO´s. They are enlisted personnel equal in rank.
So a Stabsgefreiter is not in command of Gefreiters and Obergefreiters.

My question was why have two ranks where the criteria for achieving the rank were almost the same.

Kristina

[John W. Howard]

Hi Kristina:
You might try the search function of our site. If I remember correctly we had several excellent discussions of enlisted and NCO rank awhile ago. It was my understanding then that there were certain ranks, which I would call terminal ranks, where a soldier not destined for higher rank, remained. I will check the search function as well to see if I am able to find the thread I am thinking of; it was excellent in every way. Best wishes.

[John W. Howard]

Simon's last post in this thread should be of interest: viewtopic.php?f=66&t=28136&p=197502&hil ... ks#p197502

[John W. Howard]

Hi Kristina:
A little more: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=3888&p=19491&hilit ... nks#p19491
This seems to have been an area of interest to Wolfkin; hope it helps!!

[A.J.Lö]

I was using csm/rsm as an example and as the second link above proves, those gefreiter ranks have no meaning for just enlisted men as in todays German army there are no enlisted men. And to round off, they are not equivalent ranks, otherwise they would all be just gefreiter and have differentiation in position only!

Your assumtion implies common use of redundant ranks and I can assure you that any organisation in Germany, least of all the military, would do such a fruitless thing.



Andreas

[Tom Houlihan]

Then, too, some of those ranks were abolished after the start of the war. It is difficult for many people accustomed to Brit/US/Can type systems to fathom the way the Germans did some things. Even in the era of the 3R, there were quite a few customs and traditions that had been in place since the days of Blücher.

[Blitzmädchen]

Hi John.

Thanks for your help; I’ve been through these threads before I posted my question but I don’t think it answered my question.

Hi Andreas. (Are you German?)

I´m in the military myself; and believe me, I can show you a lot of fruitless thing.

No seriously;
An enlisted rank is any rank below a commissioned officer or warrant officer. So in the in der Bundeswehr today the enlisted ranks are: Unteroffiziere mit Portepee, Unteroffizieren ohne Portepee and Mannschaften. Right?

All Gefreiters are Mannschaften (Privates in English). Gefreiters in Die Wehrmacht were also Mannschaften.
Gefreiters are equal in rank in the sense that Obergefreiter and Stabsgefreiter is only a higher rank in a matter of pay and time served not in a matter of command.

After 5 years of service, 2 as a Obergefreiter, (rank insignia: two chevrons) you could be promoted to Stabsgefreiter (rank insignia: two chevrons with one pip)
Then if it wasn’t possible to get promoted to Stabsgefreiter after 5 years, then after 6 years of service as a Obergefreiter you could be made a Obergefreiter mit mehr als 6 Dienstjahre (rank insignia: one chevron with one pip) Can someone confirm this?

From 1.10-1934 to 25.4-1942 there were no Stabsgefreiters in the Wehrmacht and in that time the Obergefreiter with more than 6 years service wore as his rank insignia two chevrons with one pip.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Kristina

[Blitzmädchen]

Then, too, some of those ranks were abolished after the start of the war. It is difficult for many people accustomed to Brit/US/Can type systems to fathom the way the Germans did some things. Even in the era of the 3R, there were quite a few customs and traditions that had been in place since the days of Blücher.

Hi Tom

The only Gefreiter rank abolished during the War was the rank of Hauptgefreiter in the Luftwaffe.
On 4.2-1944 the rank of Hauptgefreiter (three chevrons) was replaced with the rank of Stabsgefreiter (two chevrons with one pip)

Cheers
Kristina