largest European pockets of WWII

[4444]

I have been trying to compile a list of the largest pockets of WWII in Europe; please find the result below. Grateful for comments/corrections/suggestions.

A few words re definitions: the yeardstick to gauge the size of a pocket is the number of troops in the moment of encirclement (not duration of the kessel, not number of POWs taken, not size of the area encircled etc). A pocket would be a case of military units cut off from the main forces by an enemy operation. Cut off – with no land contact. Please note this excludes Anzio or Kertsch 1942 (not cut off by an enemy operation).

Here it goes:

1 Kiev - Konotop, 0.6m, IX/41, surrendered
2 Kuban, 0.4m, I/43 - X/43, evacuated
3 Smolensk - Orsha, 0.35m, VII/41 - VIII/41, surrendered
4 Viazma, 0.35m, X/41, surrendered
5 The Ruhr, 0.33m, IV/45, surrendered
6 Briansk, 0.3m, X/41, surrendered, partly broke through
7 Minsk, 0.3m, VI/41, surrendered
8 Courland, 0.3m, X/44 - V/45, surrendered, partly evacuated
9 Stalingrad, 0.27m, XI/42 - II/43, surrendered
10 Pas-de-Calais, 0.26m, V/40 - VI/40, evacuated; a fraction surrendered
11 West of Donets, 0.25m, V/42, surrendered
12 East Prussia, 0.25m, I/45-IV/45, surrendered
13 Crimea, 0.23m, X/43 - V/44, evacuated, partly surrendered
14 Leningrad, 0.2m, IX/41 - I/43, siege broken
15 Kamenets Podolsky, 0.2m, III/44 - IV/44, broke through
16 Volchov, 0.2m, III/42 - V/42, surrendered
17 Vistula Mouth, 0.15m, III/45 - V/45, surrendered, partly evacuated
18 Sevastopol, 0.15m, XI/41 - VII/42, surrendered
19 Lausitz, 0.12m, IV/45, broke through
20 Sieradz, 0.12m, I/45, broke through
21 Falaise, 0.12m, VIII/44, surrendered, partly broke through
22 Uman, 0.11m, VIII/41, surrendered
23 Minsk, 0.11m, VI/44, surrendered
24 Budapest, 0.1m, XII/44 - II/45, surrendered, partly broke through
25 Lower Prut, 0.1m, VIII/44 - IX/44, surrendered, defected
26 Melitopol, 0.1m, X/41, surrendered
27 Bzura, 0.1m, IX/39, surrendered
28 Netherlands, 0.1m, IV/45, surrendered
29 Demiansk, 0.1m, II/42 - IV/42, siege broken

I have not added who was encircled, but I presume you can easily sort it out.

[Dackel Staffel]

Hi,

Sorry to nitpick but for your point n°10 Dunkerque is not in the Pas de Calais. The Pas de Calais is a french subdivision ( some kind of a big district) but Dunkerque is in the Nord ( an another french subdivision). By the way, the germans in Dunkerque fought until the 8th may 1945.

So long.

[sid guttridge]

Hi 4444,

I would question your methodology in including the Kuban Bridgehead (and one or two others).

As the Red Navy and Red Air Force failed to dominate the sea route behind them, the Germans and Romanians were never, in practice, cut off in the Kuban. There was, in effect, no "Kessel". To prove the point, they rotated entire divisions in and out and evacuated the Bridgehead with minimal losses to air and sea interdiction.

I would suggest that Tunisia in May 1943 (which you have not included) qualifies better as a "Kessel", because the Axis force there was not only driven into a corner by enemy operations, but it lost control of the sea and air lanes behind it and had to surrender. I know it was not in Europe, but a purely geographical defintion seems arbitrary, as it was definitely in the European, as oppopsed to Far East, theatre of operations. (Several other North African actions might also reasonably qualify).

The logical (or perhaps illogical) extension of the reasoning which makes the Kuban Bridgehead qualify for your list might also make the Allied Normandy Bridgehead technically count for your list after any of the German counter-attacks had regained some ground. It, too, had its back to the sea but retained control of the sea and air routes that guaranteed it was never really cut off, like the Kuban Bridgehead.

Cheers,

Sid.

[M.Wittmann]

They're getting smaller and smaller

30 Cherkassy, 55,000 - II/44-III/44, partly broke through
31 Budapest, 45,000 - XII/44, surrendered

[Jan]

Ist bei dem Lausitz Kessel, der Halbe Kessel gemeint, welche die 9.Armee unter General Busse eingekesselt war??

Jan

[Pirx]

Bzura, 0.1m, IX/39, surrendered
The battle of Bzura was of course toughest in september campaign, but for sure this was not pocket.
I rather say Warsaw 09 - 27 september, 0.15m surrended. This was pocket, Bzura wasn't.
What about Berlin May 1945 ?

[4444]

Gents, many thanks for your comments.

Sorry to nitpick but for your point n°10 Dunkerque is not in the Pas de Calais

point taken. Admitted poor geography marks in the Greenland discussion already. What French region would that be?

...the Germans and Romanians were never, in practice, cut off in the Kuban. There was, in effect, no "Kessel"…

appreciate the “methodology first” approach, but disagree as to the very point raised. If you simply exclude land pockets with air or sea link, this would lead to counting out such famous cases like Dunkerque, Courland or Sevastopol. If you exclude pockets which are not hopeless or at least very difficult cases, this would lead to endless discussions which encirclements were safe and which were not.

Take Crimea X/43 for instance. If I take your approach, it would be disqualified as a pocket, since for months the Germans were totally controllng the air and the waters around the penninsula. Everyone thought evacuating Crimea would be no problem (just like Kuban). A sudden change of weather has surprisingly proven these calculations rubbish, and a safe “Kuban-like” evacuation turned out to be a struggle, partially lost. I would have not dared to tell the folks desperatly seeking refuge from Crimea in May 1944 that they are not "eingekesselt"...

… I know it was not in Europe, but a purely geographical defintion seems arbitrary, as it was definitely in the European, as oppopsed to Far East, theatre of operations…

well, I admit not being a fanatic of a Europe from Vancouver to Vladivostok… Yes, the geographical definition of Europe is arbitrary, but please do not blame me for this…

Budapest, 45,000 - XII/44, surrendered

I have listed Budapest as no. 24. I would agree the number of German troops was around 0.045m, but please count in also the Hungarians. I am not really sure whether Budapest indeed passes the 100.000 threshold, but I think also a number of other, including Demiansk, are in doubt. And why until Dec 1944? Buda was evacuated on Jan 13, I think; the Castle area in Pest was hold until Feb 17, I believe (please excuse all “I think” and “I believe”, but I am in midst of a removal and all my books are burried under boxes with some more fragile domestic equipment).

Ist bei dem Lausitz Kessel, der Halbe Kessel gemeint, welche die 9.Armee unter General Busse eingekesselt war?

In mid-April 5 armies of the 1. Ukrainian Front encircled most of the 9. Army (Busse) and part of 4. Pz. Army (Greaser), some 12 divisions in total. The Germans attempted a breakthrough towards Bautzen. During the battle of Bautzen fought on April 20-27 they briefly re-took the city, almost torn to pieces the Polish 2. Army, and opened a corridor to the North-West. Fate of specific units differed; quite a lot have indeed ended up in the Halbe pocket.

The battle of Bzura was of course toughest in september campaign, but for sure this was not pocket. I rather say Warsaw 09 - 27 september, 0.15m surrended. This was pocket, Bzura wasn't

come on, Pirx, we have discussed Bzura already at http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... ight=bzura. For sure it was a pocket, and the number of troops encircled might have been much higher than 0.1m, maybe even as much as 0.15m. Your comment re Warsaw is interesting, but I have two doubts. First, I must check what was the number of troops encircled. Second, I am not sure whether the Warsaw defenders or maybe the troops grouped in South-Eastern Poland should be considered “main forces” (please see my suggestion as to the definition). The same applies to your Berlin suggestion: I think the Berlin defenders were indeed the German “main forces”, so they could have not been cut off from them.

[Pirx]

About Bzura:
gen Kutrzeba, his hq ,15 Inf div, 25 inf div, "Wielkopolska" Cavalary Brigade and "Pomorska" Cavalary Brigade was a later part of Army "Warszawa". Polish lost 14th, 17th, 26th inf. div. elements of 4th, 16th and 27th inf. div. (this 3 divisions were hard hit in corridor and Tuchola Woods 2nd-6th september and they were at no more than 60% of full strength). To this we shall add small artilery units, and garrison units from Poznan, Grudziac, Bydgoszcz and other major citiec in north-west Poland. Poles lost about 60 000 soldiers in battle near Bzura river, 100 planes and 100 tanks and tankets (Vickers E, and 7TP). To Warsaw breaks about 35 000 soldiers.

Army "Warszawa", and Army "Modlin":
The first one was under gen. Rommel (the same name like german fieldmarshal !) and it was a garrison of Warsaw with troops withdrawed from Bzura area it was 120 000 soldiers (killed 2000 wounded 16 000) Surrended 28.IX.1939
Army "Modlin" under gen. Thommee was created from elements of 2nd, 8th, 28th and 30th inf. div. about 30 000 soldiers lost 4000 killed and wounded. surrended 29.IX.1939.
Totally in Warsaw pocket surrended 150 000 soldiers.

[Das Reich]

Would the Brody pocket be any part of that?

[4444]

About Bzura: gen Kutrzeba, his hq ,15 Inf div, 25 inf div, "Wielkopolska" Cavalary Brigade and "Pomorska" Cavalary Brigade was a later part of Army "Warszawa". Polish lost 14th, 17th, 26th inf. div. elements of 4th, 16th and 27th inf. div. (this 3 divisions were hard hit in corridor and Tuchola Woods 2nd-6th september and they were at no more than 60% of full strength). To this we shall add small artilery units, and garrison units from Poznan, Grudziac, Bydgoszcz and other major citiec in north-west Poland. Poles lost about 60 000 soldiers in battle near Bzura river, 100 planes and 100 tanks and tankets (Vickers E, and 7TP). To Warsaw breaks about 35 000 soldiers.

captain, when you were navigating space ships you seemed to see better... On Sep 1 the two armies amounted to some 250.000 people. „Ponzan” suffered almost no casualties until Sep 7, „Pomorze” suffered significant losses, but some units were re-established. I would say on Sep 9, when the Poles mounted their attack on Blaskowitz’s left wing, they had some 200.000. Until Sep 17, when the Germans closed the pocket, some 30.000 managed to slip through towards Warsaw, and an unspecified number perished in combat. Still, the number of troops encircled was safely above 100.000.

And you say no pocket? So what was going on at Brochow and Witkowice on Sep 17-18? I thought these were desperate and futile Polish attempts to break through, witht the only result being massive losses, including two generals (Grzmot-Skotnicki and Wlad).

Army "Warszawa", and Army "Modlin": The first one was under gen. Rommel (the same name like german fieldmarshal !) and it was a garrison of Warsaw with troops withdrawed from Bzura area it was 120 000 soldiers (killed 2000 wounded 16 000) Surrended 28.IX.1939. Army "Modlin" under gen. Thommee was created from elements of 2nd, 8th, 28th and 30th inf. div. about 30 000 soldiers lost 4000 killed and wounded. surrended 29.IX.1939. Totally in Warsaw pocket surrended 150 000 soldiers.

as promised, I have checked the numbers. Porwit says there were 70.000 defenders on Sep 14, before the kessel was closed. Later on this figure has increased and it looks that indeed, the troops encircled in the city at some point exceeded 100.000. The Germans took 103.000 POWs on Sep 28; there were ca 5.000 KIAs and some 16.000 WIAs; I would bet on some 120.000 – which is the same as your figure given above. I realise your 150.000 is a result of bundling Modlin and Warsaw together, and I can not accept this – these were separate pockets with no communication whatsoever. And still, the question is: were the Polish „main forces” in Warsaw or in the South-East?

[4444]

Would the Brody pocket be any part of that?

I do not have exact figures, and all I can say is there were 5 divisions encircled around July 20. Judging by everage strength of German divisions at that time, I presume 60.000 might be a too generous estimate.

[M.Wittmann]

I have listed Budapest as no. 24. I would agree the number of German troops was around 0.045m, but please count in also the Hungarians. I am not really sure whether Budapest indeed passes the 100.000 threshold, but I think also a number of other, including Demiansk, are in doubt. And why until Dec 1944? Buda was evacuated on Jan 13, I think; the Castle area in Pest was hold until Feb 17, I believe (please excuse all “I think” and “I believe”, but I am in midst of a removal and all my books are burried under boxes with some more fragile domestic equipment).

You're correct, I didn't count the Hungarians with this number
Thanks for the correction, 4444.

[Dackel Staffel]

Gents, many thanks for your comments.

point taken. Admitted poor geography marks in the Greenland discussion already. What French region would that be?

Hi,

I hope this map can help you.



So long.

[Pirx]

captain, when you were navigating space ships you seemed to see better... On Sep 1 the two armies amounted to some 250.000 people.

This number of soldiers is wrong. Polish "army" in 1939 had 3-4 inf divisions, and 1 cavalary brigade. This is no more than 60 000 soldiers.
In the same time 10th German Army had 3 inf divisions (18, 19 and 31),
2 panzer divisions(1st and 4th), 2 light divisions and 1 motorized division.
In Polish army 1939 was no something like corps in wehrmacht.
So in sept. 1st 1939 army "Poznan" and "Pomorze" had about 120 - 130.000 soldiers (8 inf div+2 cavalary brigades + 18 national defence batailions - something like volksturm - no more than 10 000 people to defend cities like Poznan, Bydgoszcz or Torun). 250 000? who watch the stars?
In south-eastern Poland was sept. 17tn about 200 000 soldiers, including marshall Smigly-Rydz. The number was larger than in Warsaw but i don't think it was organised army but many separated units from division to batailion without comunication or comanders. Most of them crossed Rumunian and Hungarian border 18th-20th september. So from 1.1 mio army, 400 000 was captured by Germans, 200 000 Russians, 200 000 KIA or WIA, rest crosed borders, or goes to underground. The real numbers are not possible to find.

[JeffF.]

4444,

Do you have any information on the Germans that were holding out in the Atlantic and Channel ports that existed up until the end of the war? I'm looking for the composition or Order of Battle, which units were holding out, including battlegroups composed of Navy and Luftwaffe personnel.
thanks,
Jeff