Wehrmacht rank questions

The Glock · Post by **The Glock** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:56 am

ok, i'm confused, I know captains commands the company, but can some1 give me the correct Wehrmacht ranks of:

1. Regimental commander?

2. Battalion commander?

3. Platoon commander?

4. Group commander?

english words would be fine. by the way, what does the lance corporal command? and there are positions like 1st sergeant and sergeant, 2nd Lieutenant and 1st Lieutenant, so what's the difference in command between 1st and 2nd positions like that?

thanks a bunch you guys.

Helmut · Post by **Helmut** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:43 am

Servus,
The German Rank to Position correlation is very similiar to that in the American Army until you get to Division Commander. A Lieutenant, usually a 2d Lt (Leutnant) commands a platoon, a captain(Hauptmann) a company, a Lieutenant Colonel( Oberstleutnant) a Battalion and a Full Colonel (Oberst) a Regiment. In the US Army a Division Commander is a Major General( 2 Star).In The German Army, a Division Commander is a Generalmajor , the equivalent of a US BrigadierGeneral (1 Star). Having said that, I have seen Sergennt of various ranks commanding platoons, Lieutenants ( leutnant and oberleutnant) commanding companies, and captains and Majors commanding battalions. I have even read of Majors commanding regiments. I some few cases there are Lieutenant Colonels commanding Divisions for short periods of time and Colonels commanding divisions is not rare at all.
I believe that in some cases, even early in the war, platoons were commanded by Sergeants by the KSTN.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Helmut

The Glock · Post by **The Glock** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:57 am

but what does the lance corporal usually in charge of? I have heard many vets say that lance corporals did alot of work.

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:12 am

The Glock wrote:but what does the lance corporal usually in charge of? I have heard many vets say that lance corporals did alot of work.

One recommandation when you want to understand the Wehrmacht rank and position system is not to compare it with american/british ranks!!
Learn the proper german designations and their positions.

Have a look into the KStN section of my site where you see which Stellengruppe (rank group) had which position.
Comparing german system with other system only causes confusion and more confusing discussions because it was a different system.

\Christoph

Paul_9686 · Post by **Paul_9686** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:44 pm

I thought I might pop in and add that there were regulations in the WWII German Army stating that at least one platoon leader in each company had to be a non-commisioned officer.

Yours,
Paul

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:12 pm

Paul_9686 wrote:I thought I might pop in and add that there were regulations in the WWII German Army stating that at least one platoon leader in each company had to be a non-commisioned officer.

Yours,
Paul

Well, just correct for companies 1942 onwards. Before all platoon commanders were Stellengruppe "Z" in most types of companies.

\Christoph

Paul_9686 · Post by **Paul_9686** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:29 am

My source, Christoph, is a photo caption on page five of Gordon Rottman's German Combat Equipments 1939-45. It shows a German platoon in Poland, 1939, and their commander is an NCO with no other firearm but a holstered pistol and no other visible piece of equipment besides a map case. The caption says "unit strength authorization tables prescribed that one platoon leader in each company be an NCO".

That's why I thought it was a pre-war regulation, carried over into the war, and possibly expanded as time went on and more officers died in battle.

Yours,
Paul

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:07 am

Paul_9686 wrote:My source, Christoph, is a photo caption on page five of Gordon Rottman's German Combat Equipments 1939-45. It shows a German platoon in Poland, 1939, and their commander is an NCO with no other firearm but a holstered pistol and no other visible piece of equipment besides a map case. The caption says "unit strength authorization tables prescribed that one platoon leader in each company be an NCO".

That's why I thought it was a pre-war regulation, carried over into the war, and possibly expanded as time went on and more officers died in battle.

Yours,
Paul

Then the books is wrong. Of course if the platoon commander was killed a NCO was to take over but as you see in the KStN on my site both the 1937 type infantry companies (Poland, France, Balkan) and the 1941 infantry companies required a Stellengruppe "Z" officer as commander.
Either the caption is wrong, the photo is not from Poland 1939.

\Christoph

Paul_9686 · Post by **Paul_9686** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:37 pm

I suppose it's possible, Christoph, that Rottman assumed that the 1942 regulations were true for the entire war.

In the photo in question, German soldiers are seen marching into a captured Polish city (at least, the city is identified as Polish by Rottman in the original caption). They're wearing the early-war uniform with the dark-colored collar and shoulder straps on their uniforms, and they're wearing the high-topped marching boots, not ankle boots as would've been seen later in the war. They're marching at right-shoulder-arms, and just to their right, facing ther camera (as are the marchers), is their platoon leader--and he is definitely wearing collar Tresse, although, as I said above, his only visible equipment are a pistol holster and map case, and his hands are empty.

Oh, and they have helmets and full field gear, but no back-backs as far as I can tell. Another soldier--an Unteroffizier, judging by his collar Tresse and shoulder straps--is standing to one side, in profile, and he has all the proper belt and belt-support related gear, plus he's armed with a Kar98K.

Yours,
Paul

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:09 pm

Well, there are many possibilities concerning the photo. It does not have to be a infantry platoon but any other unit element commanded by a NCO for example a Stoßtrupp, Spähtrupp, Wachmannschaft etc....

\Christoph