KANALINSELN & TRANSNISTRIEN ?

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:13 am

Hi Troops !

Need some help!
Doing some research on Befehlshabers and ran accross the terms "Befh.Kanalinseln Aug.40-May.45" and "Befh.Transnistrien Dec.43-Apr.44"
Can anyone help me with what / where these terms refer to??
Any assistance greatly appreciated!

best regards -

tjk · Post by **tjk** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:47 am

Kanalinseln are the Channel Islands off the coast of France. The main islands are Jersey,Guernsey, Alderney and Sark. George Forty has done a book about the occupation from a German perspective. Sorry I can't remember the title off the top of my head.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:24 am

Greetings "tjk" -

Thanks much !
That's one cleared up!

best regards -

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:27 am

Hi Shadow,

Tjk is spot on with the Channel Islands. Transnistrien is Transnistria, an area in the Ukraine bordering Moldova (Moldavia as was) and Romania. Capital is Tiraspol. Nistr is the Romanian name for the Dniester river in the Ukraine.

You may want to check out the following website: http://www.isurvived.org/transnistria.html for more info about the killings of Jews during the Romaiain/German occupation.

Hope this helps.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:52 am

Greetings Howard -

Thanks to both of you !!

What I thought would be a tough question to find an answer for -
2 hours + 14 minutes later - voila

Unbelievable

very best regards -

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:24 am

Hi Shadow,

Befh.Transnistrien has those dates because prior to December 1943 the area between the Rivers Dnestr and Bug was entirely administered (although not annexed) by Romania. The Germans retained control only of the area's main arterial railways and the port facilities in Odessa.

By December 1943 the German Army had been driven so far back in the southern Ukraine that its rear echelons were spilling over the Bug into Transnistria, which was therefore made part of the front zone and for the first time received a German command: Befh.Transnistrien. The Germans and Romanians were driven entirely out of Transnistria in April 1944.

Cheers,

Sid.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:10 am

Greetings Sid -

Thanks for the info !

My notes show (re: Barbarossa):

"Only a fraction of the Rumanian Army was to be used in the initial invasion of Southern Russia.....the Rumanian 1st Army was to liberate Bessarabia with the 5th, 6th, 13th, and Guards Infantry Divisions, plus a Frontier Brigade and an Armoured Brigade. The Rumanian 3rd Army was to liberate Northern Bukovina ...."

Was this area later named Transnistria or was Transnistria a seperate entitiy to the east?

Not a big deal if no answer

- just curious!

My best regards to you -

Victor Nitu · Post by **Victor Nitu** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:01 pm

Actually the 1st Army did not take part in the fighting on the Eastern front in WWII. You must be referring to the 4th Army there (which was bigger and contained more units than the ones mentioned; btw, it was the 1st Armored Division, not Brigade).

Northern Bukovina and Bessarabia were anexed by the SU in June 1940 from Romania. These areas are found to the north-west and west(respectively) of the so-called Trans-Dnestra region, the border between the two being the Nistru/Dniestr River. While Northern Bukovina and Bessarabia were reincorporated into Romania after July 1941,Trans-Dnestra never was.

I edited this map I found on http://www.infoukes.com/ua-maps/

http://www.vnitu.home.ro/poza.htm

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:05 pm

Victor Nitu wrote:Actually the 1st Army did not take part in the fighting on the Eastern front in WWII. You must be referring to the 4th Army there (which was bigger and contained more units than the ones mentioned; btw, it was the 1st Armored Division, not Brigade).

Northern Bukovina and Bessarabia were anexed by the SU in June 1940 from Romania. These areas are found to the north-west and west(respectively) of the so-called Trans-Dnestra region, the border between the two being the Nistru/Dniestr River. While Northern Bukovina and Bessarabia were reincorporated into Romania after July 1941,Trans-Dnestra never was.

I edited this map I found on http://www.infoukes.com/ua-maps/

http://www.vnitu.home.ro/poza.htm

Greetings Victor -

Regarding Romanian initial contribution to Operation Barbarrosa.

I quote from "The Forgotten Axis - Germany's Partners and Foreign Volunteers in World War II" by J. Lee Ready.

[ Chapter 9 - page 109 ]

Quote:
"Only a fraction of the army was to be used for the invasion, and horse cavalry would provide the spearhead. The First Army was to liberate Bessarabia with the 5th, 6th, 13th and Guards Divisions, and a frontier and an armored brigade. The Third Army was to liberate Northern Bukovina with the Mountain Corps, of the 1st, 2nd, and 4th Mountain Brigades, and the Cavalry Corps, of the 5th, 6th, and 8th Cavalry Brigades. The armored brigade had two tank regiments and the horse cavalry brigades had some tank support, giving the Romanians a total of about 120 armored fighting vehicles - French-built Renault R-35s, Czech-built R-1s and R-2s, and some obsolete FT-17s"
End Quote.

My notes show the Romanian 4th Army coming into play when assigned the task of taking Odessa. Hitler, by this time, had convinced Romania she should take a "larger" role on the eastern front and help occupy/invade the ukraine. HQ-1st Army remained behind in Moldavai/Northern Bessarabia as an occupying force I believe, while large portions of it's units went to 4th Army for the seige of Odessa.

Initially the armor - cavalry - mountain units were designated brigades. These were later re-named Divisions sometime after the 22 June 41 invasion of Russia.

Thanks a million for the map!!

best regards -

Victor Nitu · Post by **Victor Nitu** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:34 am

Trust me, the 1st Army was not involved on the Eastern Front. If you want a reliable source on the Romanian army in WWII, you should try to find Third Axis, Fourth Ally by Mark Axworthy. On the net, you can check out http://www.worldwar2.ro

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:55 am

Dear Victor -

No excuse !
Actually, I've read "Third Axis, Fourth Ally" by Mark Axworthy!
When I went to my hard copy file re: "J. Lee Ready notes" - there, in pencil, at the bottom I've written "info. on 1st AOK is incorrect!"!
Feel like a complete idiot

!

Thank-you for the correction and also the guide to YOUR? website - I will most definitley be spending some time there !!

In mitigation for my glaring error I must explain that I'm new to the "information highway" and it came as quite a shock that all the information I had laboriously gathered over a 25 year period, in the vague hope of one day being published, was freely available at the touch of a keystroke on the Net!! 1310 pages of manuscript and mountains of notes gathered in 16 countries on 4 continents - all for naught!
As I explained to Jason, I've spent the last 6 months or so re-typing everything onto this computer - and in the process lost complete track of many of my rough notes and my comprehensive Bibliography.
Woh is me

Anyway - enough of my sad tale - onward and upward!

Thanks, again, for your help - in the future if I have any questions regarding the Rumanian contribution to the Axis I sincerely hope you won't mind if I pester you?

My very best regards -

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:14 am

Hi Shadow,

J. Lee Ready's book is a historical disaster, especially where Romania, Slovakia and Hungary are concerned. It is wildly innaccurate and it would have been better if it had never been written. The author pours out often dubious facts but seems to lack the understanding, inclination or ability to analyse them dispassionately. The book was influential in the 1980s when it had little competition, but it has since required dozens of better researched books (such as "Third Axis, Fourth Ally") to correct its numerous errors. It is much safer to ignore anything J. Lee Ready writes on Romania or other minor Axis powers. (You are not alone if you wasted hard-earned money on this dud in the 1980s. So did I!)

To answer your original question. Basarabia essentially lay between the Rivers Prut and Dnestr (Nistru). Transnistria essentially lay between the Rivers Dnestr (Nistru) and Bug. (I write "essentially" because their short northern borders did not follow any of these rivers.)

Cheers,

Sid.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:27 am

Good Morning Sid -

Made a big mistake in buying said works when it came out!
Made an even bigger mistake when I held it as sort of "gospel" on satellite Axis powers in the years after.
When I first started researching my book I was only interested in the German aspect, so didn't pay much attention to the accuracy of info in regards to Rumania etc. - since have come to regret it!!
Most, if not all, works that I researched in later years kept contradicting all areas of Ready's book - but stubbornly, or lazily, I ignored most!
STUPID!

Anyway - thanks for the input:
Also, read a lot of your posts - most enlightening!

My very best regards -

Victor Nitu · Post by **Victor Nitu** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:15 pm

As a side note, in our presenttimes there is a small strip of land on the left bank of the Dniester, self-entitled the Republic of Trans-Dnestra. It officially belongs to the Republic of Moldavia, but after the war in 1991-92 it is administered by a Communist/Mafia head of state (Igor Smirnoff). IIRC only Russia recognizes the regime. Anyway, it seems the name of Trans-Dnestra has stuck, although the administration is not Romanian, but Russian.

Victor Nitu · Post by **Victor Nitu** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 12:18 pm

Shadow wrote:Initially the armor - cavalry - mountain units were designated brigades. These were later re-named Divisions sometime after the 22 June 41 invasion of Russia.

It was on 15 May 1942.

PS: Be carefull in that castle.

Feldgrau.net

KANALINSELN & TRANSNISTRIEN ?

KANALINSELN & TRANSNISTRIEN ?

A Humbled Researcher !!