11.SS-Freiwilligen Pgr-Div. "Nordland" in Feb. 45

[Igorn]

Gents,

I am looking for a strength of 11.SS-Freiwilligen Panzergrenadier-Division "Nordland" in February/March 45. According to Tieke its SS-PR 11 "Hermann von Salza" received in Stettin on the eve of Sonnenwende assault in Pommerania (Feb. 45) 30 StuG and 30 Panzer V's. Tieke also mentioned that its newly formed SS-Panzer-Jaeger-Abt 11had also StuG but didn't provide the exact strength.

Thanks and Regards,

Igor

[Martin Block]

Hello Igor,

although quoted again and again in postwar literature and on the Internet the claim by W. Tieke made about the delivery of 30 Panthers to SS-Pz.Abt. 11 in Feb 1943 is substantiated by nothing and incorrect! The only Panther tanks ever issued to the Abteilung were 13 or 14 (sources vary) Panther Ausf. D in mid Feb, 1944. Even those were no new tanks but the left-overs from the 60 Panther tanks shipped to H.Gr. Nord in November 1943 and initially manned by crews from the I./Pz.Rgt. 29 (see here http://www.panther1944.de/de/sdkfz-171- ... onord.html for more information - German text only). Just 2 of those Panther had survived with SS-Pz.Abt. 11 until the end of Dec 1944 and from Feb 1944 until the end of the war not a single Panther was ever delivered as replacement to SS-Pz.Abt. 11 (see also here http://www.panther1944.de/de/sdkfz-171- ... isten.html). It is an absolute mystery where Tieke's claim comes from. It can be substantiated by nothing, neither by known strenght reports from the war diary of H.Gr. Weichsel nor records of the division or any other archival sources. The claim was also denied to me by the late Paul Albert Kausch - ex CO of SS-Pz.Abt. 11 - in early 2001 when he was kind enough to respond to a letter I wrote to him with questions regarding the equipment of SS-Pz.Abt. 11 in 1944/45. The SS-Pz.Abt. 11 began the year 1945 with just 2 old Panther Ausf. D and no other known report throughout Jan/Feb/Mar until Apr 1945 ever shows anything else than just these two!

On January 1, 1945 there was only a single 'Einsatzkompanie' of SS-Pz.Abt. 11 left behind with the 11. SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren.Div. with 2 Panthers, 8 StuG III and 1 captured T 34 used as recovery vehicle. The bulk of SS-Pz.Abt. 11 and the SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 11 were back in Germany for refit. SS-Pz.Abt. 11 had received 31 StuG III already in November 1944 but returned to the division only later in January 1945. SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 11 received 31 StuG III on the last days of January 1945 just before returning to the division.

By 12.2.1945 the 11. SS-Pz.Gren.Div. had still available in SS-Pz.Abt. 11 and SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 11 a total of:
2 Pz. V and 61 StuG III
By 27.3.1945 this had been reduced to
2 Pz. V and 27 StuG III (a single StuH 42 was also reported but it's unclear where it came from. During the days before and after there had been no trace of it in any reports)
12 StuG III had been shipped to SS-Pz.Abt. 11 on 8.3.1945 but apparently were diverted to another unit [4. SS-Pol.Pz.Gren.Div.] on short notice.
10 Pz. IV/70(V) were shipped on 12.3.1945 but it took until 2.4.1945 before they appeared in the divisional strength reports for the first time. They seem to have been picked up by SS-Pz.Abt. 11 but that is not 100% confirmed.

Martin Block

[Igorn]

Martin,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply as ever. It helps to determine the panzer strength of 11.SS-Freiwilligen Pgr-Div. "Nordland" on the eve of Sonnenwende. As I am working on the study of Russian 2-nd Guards Tank Army combats in February/March 1945 in Pomerania I wonder if you have by chance some German reports or data about tank vs tank engagements for the German units engaged in combats against units of 2-nd Grds.Tank Army (e.g. 10.SS PD, 11.SS PGr. Div, 4.SS Polizei Div, 502 SS sPzAbt etc.). For example, interesting combats took place on 17th and 18th February 1945 in the area of Musherin (6th Grds Yeavy Tank Regiment of the 2nd Grds Tank Army against units of 10.SS PD) or in March 1945 near Naugard, Freienwalde, Stargard, Gollnov and Altdamm. In return I can provide you with the full details from the Russian side about 2-nd Grs Tank Army based on archival documents from Tsamo including day to day strength, losses, KTB, reports etc. If you have a copy of the German operational maps for Feb 16-18 (Sonnenwende) and early March 1945 I can exchange them for operational maps (color scans) of the 2-nd Grds Tank Army for the same period and the same area. If you are interested pls. send me a private message. Maybe you have by chance photos of the vehicles (maybe knock-out by Germans) of the 2-nd Grds Tank Army I may also exchange them for photos of disabled vehicles of Germans taken by Russian side in the area of 2-nd Grds Tank Army.

Thanks,

Igor

[Igorn]

By 12.2.1945 the 11. SS-Pz.Gren.Div. had still available in SS-Pz.Abt. 11 and SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 11 a total of:
2 Pz. V and 61 StuG III
By 27.3.1945 this had been reduced to
2 Pz. V and 27 StuG III (a single StuH 42 was also reported but it's unclear where it came from. During the days before and after there had been no trace of it in any reports)
12 StuG III had been shipped to SS-Pz.Abt. 11 on 8.3.1945 but apparently were diverted to another unit [4. SS-Pol.Pz.Gren.Div.] on short notice.
10 Pz. IV/70(V) were shipped on 12.3.1945 but it took until 2.4.1945 before they appeared in the divisional strength reports for the first time. They seem to have been picked up by SS-Pz.Abt. 11 but that is not 100% confirmed.Martin Block

Martin,

Do you have the strength report of the 11. SS-Pz.Gren.Div. as of 1.03.45 or first days of March 1945 as in these days division was engaged in defensive battles against Russian assault in Pomerania.

Thanks,

Igor

[Grenader Henrik]

Hi, Martin!

I have a few questions:

On January 1, 1945 there was only a single 'Einsatzkompanie' of SS-Pz.Abt. 11 left behind with the 11. SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren.Div. with 2 Panthers, 8 StuG III and 1 captured T 34 used as recovery vehicle.

Earlier, in another forum (AHF), I recall you stated that 3 Panthers were shipped out from Kurland.

SS-Pz.Abt. 11 had received 31 StuG III already in November 1944 but returned to the division only later in January 1945. SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 11 received 31 StuG III on the last days of January 1945 just before returning to the division.

You also stated that the Pz.Abt. received its StuG in January 1945, while the Pz.Jg.Abt. received its StuG in November 1944.


And while I'm at it, a claim has it that Nordland received 18 StuG III in September/October 1943. I'm a bit puzzled by this claim, because Nordland also received 38 StuG in November/December 1944, shipped 7 away to another unit (?) and thus reported 31 at the start of the year 1944. Were those 18 passed on to another unit?


Sincerely,
Henrik D

[Martin Block]

Damn,

entirely my fault! Looks like I was a bit quick when I wrote that last post.

On 1.1.1945 the Einsatzkompanie did indeed have still 3 Panther (2 of them combat ready), 8 StuG III (8 combat ready) and 1 T 34 'Bergeschlepper' (1 combat ready). 1 Panther was apparently lost sometime during January or early February 1945 at the latest since all other so far known to me reports from February, March and April 1945 show only 2 Panther left on hand.

And indeed it was SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 11 that had received 31 StuG III in November 1944 while SS-Pz.Abt. 11 received 31 StuG III on the last days of January 1945 just before returning to the division. Well, sorry again but sh... happens


Regarding earlier shipments of StuG III in 1943:

During September and October 1943 the first 18 StuG III were assigned and shipped to the 11. SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren.Div., but status reports from the fall of 1943 then show that only half of them arrived in Croatia. The other 9 were apparently diverted to another unit. I could not yet find out which one.
But already In November 1943 the 9 remaining StuG were used to form the core for the SS-Stu.Gesch.Abt. 105, a 'Korpstruppe' for the V. SS-Geb.Korps.
24 new StuG III were already shipped to 11. SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren.Div. in mid November 1943, but none of them actually arrived because on short notice 14 were assigned to the 1. SS-Pz.Div. and 10 to another, yet unknown to me, unit. So by the beginning of December 1943 the 11. SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren.Div. had no StuG available.
Finally on 9./10.12.1943 another 38 new StuG III were shipped to the division. But only 31 of them were kept by SS-Stu.Gesch.Abt. 11 while 7 had to be handed over to SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 54 of the 4. SS-Pz.Gren.Brig. during the first days of January 1944.

Hope I didn't include so many stupid errors this time

Martin Block

[Martin Block]

@ Igor

The last more or less full strength report of the division I know about is the one dated 1.1.1945. After that there are just partial reports mostly covering tanks only available.

The best I can come up with for early March 1945 is a report from a staff officer from the Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. who had visited various armored units with H.Gr. Weichsel from 10.1 to 13.1.1945.

He wrote that SS-Pz.Abt. 11 had lost 25 StuG III between 6.2. and 12.3.1945 as total write-offs. These were caused by
- anti-tank fire = 9
- blown up due to lack of recovery vehicles = 4
- lost while under repair in maintenance facilities overrun by enemy forces = 3
- left behind because lack of fuel = 8
The cause of the 25th loss is not given but it is stated that the case was under further review by a court-martial

The 12 StuG III shipped to the division on 8.3.1945 but then assigned to 4. SS-Pol.Pz.Gren.Div. were still with SS-Pz.Abt. 11 because they had developed mechanical problems. 5 had already broken down with damage to their 'Kegelantrieb' and it looked like the others also developed the same trouble.

No report was available from SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 11 which had been subordinated to X. SS-Korps, but it was feared the unit had been completely destroyed.

I now wonder if the 12 StuG III were ever actually handed over to the 4. SS-Pol.Pz.Gren.Div.:
Einsatzkp. SS-Pz.Abt. 11 had started the year 1945 with 8 StuG III.
The bulk of SS-Pz.Abt. 11 then joined with 31 StuG III.
Losses of SS-Pz.Abt. 11 until 12.3.1945 had amounted to 25 StuG III.
That should have left the unit with 8 + 31 - 25 = 14 StuG III
But on 12.3. and 15.3.1945 there were 26 StuG III reported with the division.
After that until early April 1945 there was no significant drop in the number of StuG III but it remained at 26 to 27.
Since no other replacements had been sent sent, that would fit only if the 12 StuG were not handed over to 4. SS-Pz.Gren.Div. or SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 11 had returned with 12 (which I find less probable).
Don't have much reports from the 4. SS-Pol.Pz.Gren.Div. but from what I have it seems as if at least until 20.3.1945 there was no increase in StuG III strength.

Regarding your other offer/request I can't do this at the time being. My little spare time is already devoted to a number of other projects which keep me quite busy.

Regards,

Martin Block

[Grenader Henrik]

Hi, Martin!

No need to apologize. Even the best can make a mistake every now and then.

Thanks to you, I believe I now have a clearer picture of StuG deliveries to 11. SS Nordland:

Sep/Oct 1943: 18
Nov 1943: 24
Dec 1943: 38
Nov 1944: 31
Jan 1945: 31
March 1945: 12

Any corrections are of course welcomed.

Sincerely,
Henrik D

[Martin Block]

That's correct but please keep in mind that
- of the first 18 only 9 arrived but where quickly handed over to another unit again
- of the second 24 none arrived
In addition to the new StuG shipped from ordnance depots in Germany another approx. 7 'used' StuG III were taken over from Kampfgruppe Böhrendt in July/Aug 1944. Another 4 'used' ones were taken over from SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 54 at the end of Sept. 1944. That's it as far as I can tell.

Martin Block

[Grenader Henrik]

Many thanks, Martin!

Sincerely,
Henrik D

[Grenader Henrik]

Hi Martin!

You mentioned that the number of StuG III of SS-Pz.Abt. 11 remained at 26-27 during March/April 1945. Could that single StuG III be a survivor of the decimated SS-Pz.Jg.Abt. 11 (which would prove your theory concerning the 12 StuG III)?

Sincerely,
Henrik D