Credit for tank kills

Helmut · Post by **Helmut** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:18 pm

Servus,
Something that has puzzled me for some time is how was credit given to tanks for kills of enemy tanks. Did the score follow the tank commander, the gunner, or the crew? The commander or the gunner could be transferred to a different position or unit or even tank. Did that " score" go with him/ The crew was also in flux so and for that matter they could always get a new tank. I'm sure Michael Wittmann ddi not have the same tank, crew, or gunner for his entire career. Even though he was the tank commander, the kills, I'm sure were as much the work of at least the gunner and the entire crew as a combined effort.
Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Regards and Merry Christmas,

Helmut

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:25 pm

AFAIK it went with the commander...but didn't Wittmann by chance have the same gunner for over half his career?

Helmut · Post by **Helmut** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:25 pm

Servus,
Yes he had Bathazar Woll for most of his career but that means he had another gunner for the other half. Seeing as the gunner does most of the work as far as killing other tanks, it just doesn't seem right that the tank commander gets all the credit.

Regards,

Helmut

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:37 pm

True, but that's for us 60 years later! At the time I'm sure they had peer recognition on the lines of "*I* was Michael Wittmann's gunner!"
Let's face it - what in the end was Wittmann's reward for his fame but to go to his eternal rest?

Liam · Post by **Liam** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:18 am

As for the man who ended Wittmann's life, well he WAS merely a lowly gunner but has quite rightly been credited not just with the destruction of Wittmann's Tiger but two others in the same action. So, step forward Trooper Joe Elkins of the 1st Northants Yeomanry.

krichter33 · Post by **krichter33** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:56 pm

The gunner would receive credit as well. Woll and Knispel received credit for kills scored as a gunner, and those scored as a commander. However it seems that kill scored as a commander had a higher recognition than the gunners. Woll I believe had about 100 kills, of which about 80 were as a gunner, and the remainder as a commander. Knispel had 168 kills, of which 126 were as a gunner, and 42 as a commander. On the other hand all of Wittmann's 138 kills, and all of Bolter's 139 kills were as commanders. So it seems the commander's kills counted more. I got this info. from a thread on AHF.

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:08 pm

Klaus - the question would be...higher recognition or reputation? It was the Nazi domestic-comsumption propaganda mill that made the reputations of men like Wittmann, alongside fighter aces and high-scoring U-Boat captains.

krichter33 · Post by **krichter33** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:15 pm

I agree one hundred percent. That's why men like Wittmann were given more honors, than the gunners. It was partly for propaganda purposes. Now, I don't think that should in any way discredit Wittmann, or similar U boat Captains, yet it is unfortunate for the lower ranks who didn't receive equal or greater recognition.