Re-enactment...why??

Rajin Cajun · Post by **Rajin Cajun** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:43 pm

My image wasn't made by re-enactors it was made by me in Photoshop...nice try though.

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:23 am

Hi Sani,

Fair comment.

Cheers,

Sid.

Sani116 · Post by **Sani116** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:33 am

phylo_roadking wrote:Sani - do you have a daytime job and income? Yes?

Do you have objections to them not caring as you do about authenticity? Yes?

If you care as much as you say and want to get it as authentic as you say...why don't you walk???

For many of us re-enacting is about sharring our knowledge with the public, getting as close as is now possible to living how "they" lived 60+ years ago (admittedly without the stresses and strains of actual warfare) - and to expand our own knowledge through the hobby and practical use. You have alot of very knowledgable re-enactors in the UK and America (etc), people who are contacted by museums to help do displays, guys who maintain historical vehicles so that you guys can pay your entrance fee and strutt round a museum or showground and see these things outside of a book. The vast magority of us work very hard to maintain a beleivable impression for the public and for ourselves
So why do something that I'm sure therefore you must find personally objectionable? Surely it can't be that you're doing it just for the money, could it?

I did the documentary because I can see past an immature and selfish viewpoint such as yours. You think that because your so knowledgable on the subject of WW2, and because you can nit pick documentaries (wow all hail you) that no one else should watch them (god forbid participate in them). They provide the stimulus for kids out there who ARE the future proffessors and future armchair experts such as yourself. I head up the German research "department" for Frantic Games' 'Normandy 1944 Operation Overlord' - the amount of kids I see coming onto our forums and discussing history is great, and all of them have watched documentaries - including the stalingrad one. Doc's and docu'dramas are the base knowledge for people (not just kids) to build upon - History Nazi's such as yourself dont get that, and ridicule those who you consider "beneath" your interlectual status.

Doc's also publicise re-enactment groups, they attract more members, and stop the re-enactment world from dying off. Granted not every single member of every single re-enactment group has a vast and intense knowledge of ww2, alot of people join to improve their own knowledge base by working with the kit and with the guys that do have the knowledge. You could see it as a sort of apprenticeship scheme for re-enactors - 'learning on the job'. I apologise to those of you who have been in contact with re-enactors who arent up to your standards, the re-enactment world isnt perfect, we know this, there are groups out there who dont re-enact authentically - those people are ridiculed within the hobby (after being advised to up their impression to something historially accurate).

As for fatties in re-enactment.....yeah you get them, we have a couple of beefy guys in our group....I have nothing against them, because I know that they work very hard within the hobby to get what they do correct. Its just one of those things that they are perhaps "historically incorrect" in their weight.
Its not an excuse, but you also have to remember that both height and average build of people in 2007, is NOT the same as it was in the 1940's - especially as none of us want to put ourselves on starvation diets

At the end of the day, we work hard to get our historical accuracy correct, come to some shows in the UK this year and you will see that of both WARS (WW2 Axis Re-enactment Society) and AFRA (Axis Forces Re-enactment Association). Both of which house good groups such as:

FJR2; who work closely with an FJR6 Veteran of Cassino and Normandy - who is also a friend of us all. They also do re-enacted parachute training jumps at shows, and parachute packing using original chutes.

GrossDeutschland 2kp PanzerGrenadierDivision; The group I belong to - and help to run. Who are also in the midst of converting an OT810 into an exact reproduction of an SDKFZ251D

GrossDeutschland Aufklarungs; who have an excellent waffenmeister display

Das Reich

116th Pnzr Div 'Windhund'; who I belonged to when I first joined this forum (and as you can probably tell, my impression at the time was Sanitäts - and it is still my speciality).

Regards.
Tom.

pzrmeyer2 · Post by **pzrmeyer2** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:21 am

This is not a matter of greater availability of Waffen-SS kit, but of freedom of personal and commercial choice.

In order to maintain the historical balance not only between SS and Heer, but of support troops to combat troops, I am now accepting applications to some reenatment units I am starting:

Please bring resume and apply to:

A. 1176th Postal Company
B. 1442nd Bridge Construction Bn
C. B Co, 4th Animal Control Bn (Dog Catcher)

Come join the fun!

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:37 pm

Hi pzrmeyer,

Another good point. One reason why the Waffen-SS's casualties were slightly heavier proportionally than the Army's was because the Army supplied most of the Waffen-SS's non-combatant logistics and ancillary services. If one actually compared the combat elements of the two forces, Waffen-SS proportional casualties might even have been lower than the Army's!

Your support is appreciated.

I hope you have many takers and are able to enlist Heer and Waffen-SS dog catchers in the approved ratio of 20:1. (Careful about the types of mutts your W-SS dog-catching re-enactors pursue, though. We wouldn't want them mistakenly rounding up pedigree breeds for putting down, now would we!)

Cheers,

Sid.

pzrmeyer2 · Post by **pzrmeyer2** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:42 pm

Thank you Sid.

Can I put you down for the postal clerk position or Inspector of Dog Poop Purity? (you'd be instantly promotable to Unterscharfuhrer if you accept the latter, provided you pass the purity and background check )

Sani116 · Post by **Sani116** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:57 pm

Will the dog leads be made of synthetic materials or authentic leather? Furthermore, will the hunde have the regulation 'cut'? (for info on the regulation cut, visit http://www.dererstehund.com)

Also, can the association of chair-born pie finders be amalgamated into 1176th postal company (assuming this is an association?).....

I could go on but I'd only be like you...boring.

Rajin Cajun · Post by **Rajin Cajun** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:11 pm

What about the Chairborne Rangers? Joystick Rangers? What about Unterscharfarbweinermeistergeneralissimo of the 3rd Super Aryan Division of as Sani116 so politely put it "fatties".

Wolfkin · Post by **Wolfkin** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:43 pm

Hello!

I find it indeed very disturbing if the source of most people’s interest in WWII is TV documentaries, movies, video games and re-enacting. I appreciate the fact that all of these things help bring more interest to the subject but to use these sources as the base of one’s knowledge is flawed and more than likely responsible for the spread of incorrect information. It is not that the re-enactment groups, documentaries, movies and video games are not up to my standards it is simply that it only takes a very little amount of time and effort to find the correct information. What happened to reading, researching and study? The fact that this is not done shows that a certain amount of time and effort was not put forth into the projects which proves that the people involved are not very serious. So, if they are not serious why should I take them seriously?

Also, all of the vehicles that I know that are in my area are maintained by museums, volunteers and private collectors and not by re-enactors. The re-enactment groups borrow the vehicles for their events. Why do people feel that they need to re-enact to learn? What happened to reading, researching and study? Is it because of the fascination with TV and video games? Is re-enacting like one large video game? If they do indeed try very hard to be historically accurate why on earth have I never seen a re-enactment group with the correct ranks, rank equivalents, rank assignments, unit structures and tactics? Perhaps too much emphasis is given to all the “cool uniforms and cool photo shoots” and not enough on the history of the unit being represented.

I appreciate your response and your defence of re-enacting. Like I said, I was at one time actually interested in it myself. What discouraged me was the fact that most groups only seemed interested in treating it like some sort of club where you go hang out, drink some beers and then dress up in “cool” uniforms and pretend that you are somebody you are not. If I could possibly find a group that was serious in using actual real historical information and serious at getting the correct ranks, rank equivalents, rank assignments, unit structures and tactics, then I might reconsider.

Cheers,

Wolfkin

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:57 pm

Hi Guys,

I think that re-enactors are getting a rather unnecessary walloping here.

I don't re-enact myself and have never felt drawn to it, but I do recognise that re-enactors are part of the wider military-historical community and help publicise and popularise our shared interest, which is a good thing.

We all feed off each other.

Cheers,

Sid.

Rajin Cajun · Post by **Rajin Cajun** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:28 am

Sid I don't think anyone is giving the real hardcore reenactors crap I think everybody's problem here is the prevalent idiots that tend to make up the community. You have units whose biggest thing is going out in the field, getting loaded and shooting off blanks like they were in the Bayou. You have other reenactors as I have stated already in this thread that couldn't tell you their CO for their unit during the time period let alone basic unit history. A smaller portion are diehard Neo-Nazis and while everyone would like to deny it I have met them. What I have always found humorous is some organizations specifically bare Communists but they do not bar Neo-Nazis which I find odd since you figure having either radical group could pose a problem.

Another group is just obsessed to fill out a fantasy I can't tell you how many Waffen-SS Reenactors talk about Valhalla like they are modern day Vikings. Yes sure some guys believed in that but I don't remember so many being so suicidal, bloodthirsty, listening to Manowar and praising Thor like it was back in the hayday. I think some reenactors like to obsess over stereotypes instead of realizing a lot of German Soldiers were just like us and didn't have some Klingon like death wish.

Thankfully though we have enough squared away groups that it keeps it serious for the most part.

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:28 am

Hi RC,

An interesting take on a hobby I don't really know much about. I hadn't realised some it was so politicised on the fringes.

Cheers,

Sid.

Reb · Post by **Reb** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:56 am

Sid

Just wait until the next generation

I've met more navy seals than I have sailors!

does there exist a military man somewhere in this galaxy who was NOT special ops?

A policeman who was not SWAT?

Sid you think its bad with SS just wait a few years...

I remember a guy with the TN state militia (an actual govt body - sort of a step down from NG) who offered me a position with that outfit - said that Rhod. Army was the equivilent of special forces in his eyes. I was flattered but well, no its not!

And its quite possible to be a regular landser and still be a good troop!
I'm guessing Sid that you saw as much or more action than me yet GF was hardly considered an elite unit. Yet you were where the rubber hit the figurative road.

Cheers
Reb

Tom Houlihan · Post by **Tom Houlihan** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:08 am

I was a Marine infantryman. No spec ops stuff, just a basic grunt. Well, advanced grunt, really. We machinegunners, as well as the mortarmen and AT types considered ourselves educated grunts. I'm proud enough of that service, I don't have to lie about it.

Reb · Post by **Reb** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:26 am

Tom

gunners rock! Needless to say - I was a gunner myself.

Have you read "Guns Up?" Its by a marine in VN and very well done.

cheers
Reb