Panzer Regiment 5 in Tunisia

[Lannes]

Hello All,
Just trying to get some things straight about PR 5 in Tunisia. I'm working with Aberger's history of the 21PD, I know there's a dedicated history of the regiment out there but have no access to it.
During the withdrawal from Alamein, around 20. Nov. '42, it gets reorganised into a two-company battalion, with a mix of PzIIIs (5cm L42 and L60s) and PzIVs (again, some L24 and some L43 7,5cms).
By mid-January '43 its back up to a three-company battalion, and at some point before the end of the month PzAbt Grun (21 PzIII, 17 PzIV- what types?) is assigned as II/PR5.
Then, in the first week of February, I/ and II/ are merged and PzAbt 190 (which starts with 52 PzIII -many of them Ausf N- and 10 PzIV -presumably all L43s) becomes the new II/PR5.
By the time Fruhlingswind (the Kasserine attack) is underway, the regiment has 55 PzIII and 14 PzIV.
Can someone confirm/correct the above, and even possibly give panzer type details for the Kasserine numbers? I'm particularly interested in how many PzIII Ausf Ns and short-barel 5cms were around.
Thanks in advance!
Aris Kosionidis

[David W]

It's a long topic, but there might be something useful in it for you....

http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... 92&start=0

[Lannes]

Dave,
Thanks. I had seen that thread, that's where the numbers for PzAbt Grun came from.
Aberger states that on 1/1/43, 21.PD had 3 PzIII(k), 7 PzIII(l), 6 PzIV(k) and 14 PzIV(l). I think that the latest number is the clue to the reorganisation from two to three companies, as on 19/12/42 there were only 4 PzIV(l)- so maybe the ten new tanks came organised into some sort of provisional company or the Regt organised it when they received them.
According to some numbers Roger Griffiths (he of many excellent posts) has shared on this forum, the 21. PD had 32 PzIIINs (23 of them operational) on 28/2/43. Aberger states that on 4/3/43 the division total was 54 tanks, so it sounds like PzIIINs were by this time very much the majority, especially considering that the figure of 54 includes PzIVs. It is tempting to extend this backwards to Fruhlingswind, but that of course is at best an educated guess.
By the way, in the "Replacement Panzers..." thread, you mentioned the armoured infantry company in AA33. The battalion history says they arrived on 30/4/42 with 34 SPW. Dr. Niehorster's superb organisational series gives the light Armoured Recon Company a total of 37, and I have no idea where the 3 missing SPWs went, or even if they were missing at all- maybe the AA33 authors made a slight mistake there. I am reasonably certain that this company is the subject of the report at http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/ ... e-ww2.html
, as their history makes reference to the up-armed SPWs.
Thank you for the pointer to the interesting thread. If any more information on the "PR5 in Tunisia" mystery comes my way, I'll post it here. After all, why suffer alone when you can make others suffer as well :-)?

Aris Kosionidis

[Doktor Krollspell]

Hello Aris/Lannes!

Here's a book on the Panzer-Regiment 5 by B. Hartmann (you probably already know about it but anyhow...):


http://www.zinnfigur.com


Regards,

Krollspell

[condor_64]

Hello all,
I’m also interested in PzRgt-5 in Tunisia, particular for the Kasserine operations. The following data is compiled from various sources. Sources and comments are in italics. PzAOK means HQ PanzerArmy.
Pz means only German tanks:
PzIII kz = PzIII 5cm L42
PzIII lg = PzIII 5cm L60
PzIII 75 = PzIII 7.5cm L24 (Ausf. N)
PzIV kz = PzIV 7.5cm L24
PzIV lg = PzIV 7.5cm L43

Perhaps someone with access to NARA or BAMA documents can deliver some Panzerlage-reports for Tunisia.

2 Dec 42:
PzAOK-Afrika (15. and 21.PzD) has on hand 4 PzII, 8 PzIII kz, 22 PzIII lg, 16 PzIII 75, 2 PzIV kz, 12 PzIV lg (source: Jentz: Panzertruppen II)
first PzIII 75 (Ausf. N) arrived in Africa with Motor/vessel “Ankara” in Tobruk 19Oct42 or with Motor/vessel “Monreale” in Bengasi 8Nov42
19 Dec 42:
21.PzD: operational are 2 BefPz, 1 PzIII kz, 9 PzIII lg, 5 PzIII 75 / IV kz, 4 PzIV lg (Aberger)
30 Dec 42:
PzAOK-5 (Tunisia): 103 Pz and 11 Tiger operational, PzAbt-190 with 53 more Pz is enroute to Kairouan in central-Tunisia (OKH-report printed in Seekriegsleitung war diary)
PzAbt-190 arrived in Tunisia in Nov42 with 2 BefPz, 7 PzII, 52 PzIII (more than 50% PzIII 75) and 10 PzIV lg, but lost c. 20 Pz in Northern Tunisia, for example 6 PzIV lg near St.Josephs farm 26Nov42.
1 Jan 43:
Panzerlage PzAOK-Afrika:
15.PzD: operational are 7 PzIII lg, 8 PzIII 75 and 13 PzIV lg (Jentz)
21.PzD: operational are 3 PzIII kz, 7 PzIII lg, 6 PzIV kz/PzIII 75 and 14 PzIV lg (Aberger)
6 Jan 43:
PzAOK-5: 120 Pz and 11 Tiger operational (without PzAbt-190)
PzAOK-Afrika: operational are 67 Pz and 56 Italian tanks (OKH-report)
13 Jan 43:
PzAOK-5: operational are 160 Pz and 13 Tiger
OB-Sud (Kesselring) orders 21.PzD to leave immediately the Buerat-line for refreshment in Sfax/Tunisia, all tanks, a/t-guns and artillery pieces are to be handed over to 15.PzD (war diary OKW)
14 Jan 43:
The bulk of 21.PzD passes Tarhana and leaves behind the elements and material destined for 15.PzD (OKH-report)
15 Jan 43:
New I./PzRgt-5 is formed in Tunis from elements of PzRgt-5 and PzRgt-8 with 13 PzIII lg, 8 PzIII 75 and 17 PzIV lg (PzAbt Grün) (Jentz)
17 Jan 43:
21.PzD arrives in refreshment area North of Gabes and now is under command of PzAOK-5 in Tunis (OKH-report)
II./PzRgt-5 with all Pz of PzRgt-5 (left back in Tarhana) renames II./PzRgt-8 and joins 15.PzD (Jentz)
28 Jan 43:
PzAOK-5: 155 Pz and 11 Tiger operational plus 28 more Pz with 21.PzD (OKH-report)
the first numbers probably countfor 10.PzD and sPzAbt-501
29 Jan 43: PzAOK-5: 121 Pz and 11 Tiger operational plus 73 Pz with 21.PzD (OKH-report)
PzAbt-190 now attached to 21.PzD
4 Feb 43:
PzAOK-5: 203 Pz and 10 Tiger operational
PzAOK-Afrika: 51 Pz operational
6 Feb 43:
PzAbt-190 officially renamed II./PzRgt-5
8 Feb 43:
PzAOK-5: 205 Pz and 15 Tiger operational
11 Feb 43:
PzAOK-5: 201 Pz and 14 Tiger operational
13 Feb 43:
PzAOK-Afrika: 53 Pz and 24 Italian tanks (comment: 15.PzD and Centauro)
PzAOK-5: 112 Pz and 11 Tiger, 91 more Pz with 21.PzD (both from OKH-reports)
Operation Fruhlingswind: 21.PzD starts with 64 Pz III and 21 PzIV, 10.PzD (only Stab/ and I./PzRgt-7) has c. 50 Pz, 1./sPzAbt-501 has 6 Tiger and 9 PzIII (source: Playfair: Mediterranean and Middle East, vol. IV)
17 Feb 43:
21.PzD attacks Sbeitla with 55 operational PzIII and 14 PzIV (war diary 21.PzD from 18Feb43 in Hartmann: PzRgt-5)
20 Feb 43:
Panzerlage 21.PzD (runner/repair): 5/0 II, 2/3 III kz, 15/12 III lg, 18/14 III 75, 13/15 IV lg (source: always BAMA)
28 Feb 43:
21.PzD: 5/0 II, 2/3 III kz, 23/9 III75, 26/5 III lg, 27/8 IV lg
4 March 43:
21.PzD starts Operation Capri (Medenine) with 46 fit Pz, 10.PzD (only Stab/ and I./PzRgt-7) has 35 Pz and 15.PzD has 60 Pz (source: Playfair)
10 March 43:
21.PzD: 4/1 II, 3/2 III kz, 21/7 III75, 20/8 III lg, 17/13 IV lg
20 March 43:
DAK (21.PzD and Kampfgruppe 10.PzD) has 110 operational Pz, 15.PzD has 40 Pz (Playfair, Jentz)
27 March 43:
21.PzD counterattacks at el Hamma with 77 Pz, total losses are 24 (war diary 21.PzD from 28March43)
3 April 43:
21.PzD: 4/0 II, 4/0 III kz, 10/9 III75, 18/6 III lg, 15/6 IV lg

Any additions are welcome.
Thanks in advance! Ralf

[Lannes]

Ralf, many, many thanks for this. The picture is much,much clearer now.
Aris Kosionidis