Hello everyone
I am trying to find out if my grandad ever served in the german army as a Polish conscript?
He is now 76 yrs, he served in the Free Polish army in 1943 and has stories and photos of him around this time right up until then end of the war.
The only piece am I trying to put together is what happened during 1939 to 1943 to him? this he will not tell me, maybe because he is embarrassed or he was torturted I don't know. So I am wondering if he was conscripted into the German army? but in 1939 he would of only been 12 yrs, does anyone know at what age conscription took place, and if so what Polish regiments there were, and is there anyway of finding any records to see if he did serve in the German army? I would appreciate any help or info anyone might have.
Brad Lozynski
Polish conscripts in the german army?
Moderator: Tom Houlihan
Poles in the German Army
Hi Iozynski
My father was an English POW and in one of his jobs he mentions the Germans turning up to force male workers into the Army. They had several young men working and a look out who yelled when they appeared. At which the men all vanished.
It's not much but it gives you a small idea that he may have not been a willing volunteer.
Jacky
My father was an English POW and in one of his jobs he mentions the Germans turning up to force male workers into the Army. They had several young men working and a look out who yelled when they appeared. At which the men all vanished.
It's not much but it gives you a small idea that he may have not been a willing volunteer.
Jacky
Hi Brad,
My father was forced into the German army in June 1942. He was sent to Holland, France. He was sent to Russia in feb 1943 and was severly wounded in Nov 43. He was also sent to Normandy after the invasion where he managed to give himself up to British troops on Aug 20th 1944.
Like you my father was embaressed to tell us that he was forced into the German Army. My father is still alive and is 80 years old. He was back in Poland last Sept to visit his remaining family for the first time in 60 years.
I will dig out the address of the army records office that I wrote to to find out about my fathers service in the German Army if it is of any use to you.
I live in Glasgow
Regards
Norman
My father was forced into the German army in June 1942. He was sent to Holland, France. He was sent to Russia in feb 1943 and was severly wounded in Nov 43. He was also sent to Normandy after the invasion where he managed to give himself up to British troops on Aug 20th 1944.
Like you my father was embaressed to tell us that he was forced into the German Army. My father is still alive and is 80 years old. He was back in Poland last Sept to visit his remaining family for the first time in 60 years.
I will dig out the address of the army records office that I wrote to to find out about my fathers service in the German Army if it is of any use to you.
I live in Glasgow
Regards
Norman
Hi Brad
Did your father mother and father wsa German????? Or maybe he lived in "old german territory" before WW I ?? Generaly only german citizens or polish people who find some german roots could go to german army , but it was not popular and "good looking" in Poland.
Maybe your father think that it was "wrong" time in his life and he want to forget about it?
My grandfather was in "work camp" and he newer had offer from german to join to German Army , but he like most polish from Poznan (POSEN) hated german. If you need help from Poland I could help you.
Sorry for my English
Past
Did your father mother and father wsa German????? Or maybe he lived in "old german territory" before WW I ?? Generaly only german citizens or polish people who find some german roots could go to german army , but it was not popular and "good looking" in Poland.
Maybe your father think that it was "wrong" time in his life and he want to forget about it?
My grandfather was in "work camp" and he newer had offer from german to join to German Army , but he like most polish from Poznan (POSEN) hated german. If you need help from Poland I could help you.
Sorry for my English
Past
Poles in Wehrmacht.
It's not a secret that many Poles was in wehrmacht during WWII.
Still in Poland lives c.a. 100 000 vets. There was three possibillities to get to German Army:
1. In 1939 in 3rd Reich lives 1 milion Poles with German Passport, so young men where took to the army just like other young Germans. (70%)
2. In october 1939 four regions of occupied by Germans Polish teritory was incorporated to "Grossdeutchland":
a) Poznan (Posen & "Warthagau")
b) Gorny Slask (Obershlesien includinc Katowice, and Aushwitz)
c) Pomorze (Pommern with Thorn, Bromberg, Gdynia(Gotthafen)
d) Lodz (Litzmanstadt)
Many young Poles where taken to German Army, especially after Stalingrad (25%)
3. About 5% Poles in wehrmacht where volunteers from rest of occupied territory, so called Generalne Gubernatorstwo.
Sources:
"Kolumbowie Feldgrau" in english "Columbs Feldgrau", a book and doucumentary film about Poles in German Army.
In Poland is famous book by Roman Bratny "Columb's '20" about polish resistant Home Army, and young soldiers born beetween 1920 and 1927. They joined to Polish Home Army (1942-1946). To Home Army was joined about 400 000 people and most famous battle was Warsaw Uprising (01.08.1944 - 27.10.1944) where was killed 25 000 Polish Home Army Soldiers, 10 000 Germans and Axis-Ukrainians, and over 200 000 civilians.
Still in Poland lives c.a. 100 000 vets. There was three possibillities to get to German Army:
1. In 1939 in 3rd Reich lives 1 milion Poles with German Passport, so young men where took to the army just like other young Germans. (70%)
2. In october 1939 four regions of occupied by Germans Polish teritory was incorporated to "Grossdeutchland":
a) Poznan (Posen & "Warthagau")
b) Gorny Slask (Obershlesien includinc Katowice, and Aushwitz)
c) Pomorze (Pommern with Thorn, Bromberg, Gdynia(Gotthafen)
d) Lodz (Litzmanstadt)
Many young Poles where taken to German Army, especially after Stalingrad (25%)
3. About 5% Poles in wehrmacht where volunteers from rest of occupied territory, so called Generalne Gubernatorstwo.
Sources:
"Kolumbowie Feldgrau" in english "Columbs Feldgrau", a book and doucumentary film about Poles in German Army.
In Poland is famous book by Roman Bratny "Columb's '20" about polish resistant Home Army, and young soldiers born beetween 1920 and 1927. They joined to Polish Home Army (1942-1946). To Home Army was joined about 400 000 people and most famous battle was Warsaw Uprising (01.08.1944 - 27.10.1944) where was killed 25 000 Polish Home Army Soldiers, 10 000 Germans and Axis-Ukrainians, and over 200 000 civilians.
Hi
I was re-reading "Poles Apart" by George Cholewczynski for another post. This book also describes how Poles were conscripted by the Germans into military service. Many were captured by the Allies in North Africa, where they were quickly separated from the Germans and given the opportunity to join the Allies, some going into the 1st Polish Independent Parachute Brigade.
I was re-reading "Poles Apart" by George Cholewczynski for another post. This book also describes how Poles were conscripted by the Germans into military service. Many were captured by the Allies in North Africa, where they were quickly separated from the Germans and given the opportunity to join the Allies, some going into the 1st Polish Independent Parachute Brigade.
Cheers,
Patrick
When I was single, I had three theories on raising children. Now I have three children and no theories.
Patrick
When I was single, I had three theories on raising children. Now I have three children and no theories.
During WWII anyone signing volksliste could be conscripted into german army, especially after Stalingrad. If peoples adopting volksliste in Poland were poles or in fact germans is another story. I knew a man who was married to a german lady. He fought in the polish army. He became a POW in september 1939. Just to get out of the camp, with his wife help he signed in 1940 the volksliste. His story did not end there. After a few months he was taken to the german army. Lucky, he didn't go to the east front but was sent to Afrika Korps. At the first opportunity he changed the camp and fought the germans in Africa, Monte Cassino, ... He is both polish and german army veteran. His sons story is also very complicated and interesting.
Peoples living in Silesia were generally considered as germans and taken to the german army. Some of them fought to the end (1945), some of them were looking for an opportunity of changing their army. A lot of them took their chance in Italy. They were commonly called "the kesselrings". Some of this men, while hating germans remained in Wehrmant. They were a very valuable source of information. This is how the allies got before D-day complete plans of the atlantic wall.
Cheers
Ironrat
Peoples living in Silesia were generally considered as germans and taken to the german army. Some of them fought to the end (1945), some of them were looking for an opportunity of changing their army. A lot of them took their chance in Italy. They were commonly called "the kesselrings". Some of this men, while hating germans remained in Wehrmant. They were a very valuable source of information. This is how the allies got before D-day complete plans of the atlantic wall.
Cheers
Ironrat
My step-father from Posen joined the Polish Army and was captured by the Russians, exchanged to Germany, POW in Germany, was offered the opportunity to join the German Army and refused, received X number of lashes for his demerity and paroled late in 1940. Was promoted to Lieutenant in 2000 and awarded the Officers Cross of the Order of Merit of the Republic of Poland although he never returned to Poland after the war. He never learnt of his promotion and decoration as he died the week before, a proud and kindly Pole. One of his brothers voluntarily joined the German Army and returned to Poland after the war. Another brother was incarcerated in Auschwitz. The latter two brothers did not fall out even though they were very much on opposite sides. It must have been a very confusing time for the Poles.
Can anyone tell me where to write to in germany to get information on Polish POWs as I wish to follow up my stepfathers history as part of my family research.
- Hans
Can anyone tell me where to write to in germany to get information on Polish POWs as I wish to follow up my stepfathers history as part of my family research.
- Hans
Was haben wir für dich gewollt
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID
Du deutsches Vaterland?
- H Gehr IR 21./17.ID
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Helmut Von Moltke
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Laurent Daniel
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Hi everybody,
As Commissar gave his blessings in reviving that old thread, I jump in, wearing my beret, my striped shirt, my garlic garland and handling my tricolor flag with the Lorraine cross (Baguette and camember in the trouser's pockets):
The focus, obviously, was on the Northern French coast and the Belgian coast.
With all due respect to the gallant Poles who fought on all the European war theaters all along the war, the OoB of the Germans in France was known in details to the Allies through the French Resistance intelligence networks. Concerning the Atlantic wall, plans were provided also through the same circuit, french workers sending their infos to the Resistance and, whenever they could, putting sugar in the concrete mix to weaken it...
I know that the same was done by the Belgian and Dutch Resistance, most probably also by the Scandinavs.
Poland coasts were not really concerned.
Now, if Ironrat is still around and can provide us with a bit more details on his quote, I am interested to learn.
As Commissar gave his blessings in reviving that old thread, I jump in, wearing my beret, my striped shirt, my garlic garland and handling my tricolor flag with the Lorraine cross (Baguette and camember in the trouser's pockets):
The Atlantic wall was a set of permanent fortifications built by Organization Todt from Northern Scandinavia up to South-West France to prevent an invasion from the UK.Ironrat wrote: Some of this men, while hating germans remained in Wehrmant. They were a very valuable source of information. This is how the allies got before D-day complete plans of the atlantic wall.
The focus, obviously, was on the Northern French coast and the Belgian coast.
With all due respect to the gallant Poles who fought on all the European war theaters all along the war, the OoB of the Germans in France was known in details to the Allies through the French Resistance intelligence networks. Concerning the Atlantic wall, plans were provided also through the same circuit, french workers sending their infos to the Resistance and, whenever they could, putting sugar in the concrete mix to weaken it...
I know that the same was done by the Belgian and Dutch Resistance, most probably also by the Scandinavs.
Poland coasts were not really concerned.
Now, if Ironrat is still around and can provide us with a bit more details on his quote, I am interested to learn.
Regards
Daniel Laurent
Daniel Laurent
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Jan-Hendrik
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Torquez
A Polish spy from Home Army dressed up as a Wehrmacht general travelled to France and inspected Atlantic Wall.I know that the same was done by the Belgian and Dutch Resistance, most probably also by the Scandinavs.
Poland coasts were not really concerned.
He is name was Kazimierz Leski. Sadly he isn't well known due to Cold War. Neither Communists nor the West was much interested in Polish contribution to war, so his achievements aren't well published in the West.
Last edited by Torquez on Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Laurent Daniel
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Hi Torquez,
Maybe a name, a source, something...
Also, can we know how Polish enrolled by force into the Whermacht in Italy were holders of those precious documents and forwarded them to the Allies?
Maybe those precious documents were printed in thousands and handed over to all the Poles enrolled by force in the Wehrmacht?
Or the super-spy, with the same Wehrmacht General uniform, bluffed Kesselring and joined the Italian front with his precious papers in his pocket.
Interesting.
Please elaborate, we all are on the eave to learn something.
Thanks in advance.
Is it possible to get a few details about this outstanding spy who managed to do better than the thousands of French, Belgian and Dutch spies who were daily, for years, doing exactly the same thing all along the Atlantic wall ?Torquez wrote:A Polish spy from Home Army dressed up as a Wehrmacht general travelled to France and took photos of maps with deployment of Germant troops and inspected Atlantic Wall.
Maybe a name, a source, something...
Also, can we know how Polish enrolled by force into the Whermacht in Italy were holders of those precious documents and forwarded them to the Allies?
Maybe those precious documents were printed in thousands and handed over to all the Poles enrolled by force in the Wehrmacht?
Or the super-spy, with the same Wehrmacht General uniform, bluffed Kesselring and joined the Italian front with his precious papers in his pocket.
Interesting.
Please elaborate, we all are on the eave to learn something.
Thanks in advance.
Regards
Daniel Laurent
Daniel Laurent
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Torquez
The name of the spy was Kazimierz Leski. Because he was involved with anti-communist resistance his achievements weren't well known due to supression and imprisonment in Poland that he suffered. After '89 he was rehabilitated and got the title of honorary citizen of Warsaw from the President, and was able to publish his memoirs. I don't think he is well known in the West.
But dressing up as German officers wasn't such diffecult achievement. Polish Home Army did have good experts on faking documents and some Poles lived all their lives in Germany till 1920, so they didn't have much problems with language or behaviour.
They weren't transported by those people, but by Polish intelligence net in Germany, IIRC one of the ways was through Swedish ambassy.
But dressing up as German officers wasn't such diffecult achievement. Polish Home Army did have good experts on faking documents and some Poles lived all their lives in Germany till 1920, so they didn't have much problems with language or behaviour.
Also, can we know how Polish enrolled by force into the Whermacht in Italy were holders of those precious documents and forwarded themto the Allies?
They weren't transported by those people, but by Polish intelligence net in Germany, IIRC one of the ways was through Swedish ambassy.