Sturmgeschütz uniform ID

[ReinhardH]

So far all I know about this fellow is that he was part of a Sturmgeschütz crew, but not which unit he belonged to. The StuG was one with a 75mm gun.
The jacket is tan in color, which I found online was the correct color for a Sturmgeschütz jacket, but I'm not sure about the skulls on the collars. Have found illustrations of black panzer jackets with the standard skulls, but so far have not seen a tan jacket with the standard skulls.
My guess is that these are standard panzer skulls, not SS, correct? I believe if they were SS skulls, there'd be a small lower jaw visible below where the bones cross - these do not have that feature. Also, the cap does not have the Totenkopf on it.
Any help with this would be appreciated!

[ReinhardH]

Ooops, sorry, forgot to add, all of the fellows in the original photo are armorers...

[Rudi S.]

The 2 sculls indicate that he is in a regular army (Heer) Panzer unit - not in an SS unit. SS Panzer uniforms have a scull on one and the SS runes on the other lapel. If the color of the uniform is tan, I would guess that he was a member of the Afrikakorps.
Rudi S.

[ReinhardH]

Thanks for the quick reply, Rudi. Good to have verification the skulls are not SS, because dad is in the group of fellows in one of the photos He took one pic and one of the other guys took the other.
The pics are from very late in the war, at the earliest during the latter part of 1944 either in Holland, or in France around the time of the Bulge. May be possible that the fellow still wore the jacket from earlier in the war. Found only one reference online on a Polish website to a tan Sturmgeschütz jacket like this one, only the one illustrated there had the SS collar tabs.

[Christian]

Thought the following information might be of interest:
http://www.deutschesoldaten.com/uniform ... panzer.htm

Christian

[ReinhardH]

Awesome info, thank you very much.

[Helmut Von Moltke]

well, Rudi already explained

even more evidence that he is not Waffen SS is that he has the national cocacke on the cap instead of the Totenkops head.

helmut

[Christian]

Awesome info, thank you very much.

You are welcome.

Christian

[PaulW]

Tan unifrom?
This is a most likely a feldgrau wool panzer unifrom ("wrapper" and trousers)worn by Heer armoured panzerjager or panzerman. Stug crews usually wore collar dopplelitzen being artillery, not totenkopfs. But later in the war the diffrence between panzerjager and stug dissappeared.

The black cap would make you veer towards panzer. We know Panzer Lehr panzermen were issued feldgrau panzer unifroms (but they wore doppletzen.) And othere probably were also towards the end.
The collar patches look to be classic panzer black with Heer totenkopf and probably pink surrounds (panzer/ panzerjager).Cannot tell if the shoulder straps are black or not. Probably are.
He could also be from an armoured recon unit (panzer aufklarungs abt)

You cannot tell anything about the specific unit form these photos.

There was not any unifrom panzer wrapper unifrom made in Tan. Sometimes Feldgrau can appear paler and browner. (or Dusty)
(Unless it was a field made item of course.)
And DAK wore normal 4 pocket tropical jackets. (with all respect to a WW2 Vet!)

[PaulW]

Are these POW pics?
They seem to have no chest eagle....

[ReinhardH]

Definitely NOT a POW pic
This is from either Arnhem in late summer '44 where my father was stationed for a while, or it could be from the time of the Battle of the Bulge where his unit was at the southern part of that front. He told me where it was once, but I can't exactly remember. The only reference he's ever made to this fellow is that he's part of a StuG crew. Will ask him again the next time we get to discussing this stuff.
In one pic there's a group of guys standing to this fellow's right, and in the other pic my father is standing to his left. Some are wearing uniforms, and the mechanics are wearing overalls. The eagles over the breast pockets are on all of the uniforms except for the overalls.
Wish I could show the whole pics, but unfortunately I've already had a bad experience a few years ago with one particular crazyperson regarding stuff like this shown over the internet I elaborated on this a bit in another post a few months ago entitled "austria glasenbach" in the personalities section of the forum.
Not impossible that he could have served in a Panzer as well - dad was schooled at the Heereswaffenschule in Berlin where he learned about all kinds of heavy guns including the newer long 75mm gun, which prepared him for service with these types of units on the western front.
That there's no breast eagle on this uniform is an interesting observation, though. And thanks very much for the added info

[Roger Griffiths]

It is odd there's no breast eagle. Not seen that before. You mention Austria which would suggest 2PD or 9PD. However you say he was on Southern sector of Bulge.

Roger

[ReinhardH]

Apologies if I was not clear about the unit with the Austria connection in my above post. The Rainer Kaserne at Glasenbach where pap did his basic training was home to GJR137, which became the Ersatz-Regiment for GJR138 in Russia.
No time after that did he serve in an Austrian unit. In fact, I believe he was the only soldier from Austria in this unit, most likely only because he was an experienced field armorer.
His commanding officer so distrusted anyone who came from an area on the outskirts of Greater Germany that he would not grant my father a leave to visit home, which was "too close to those Yugoslavs". Interesting mindset, wasn't it

[Rudi S.]

In my unit, 5.Pz.Kp./FBB/GD, we wore the same uniform for both. I was a gunner in both of them, whether assigned to the Mk IV or Stug III, (at different times, of course). I don't know about other units.
Regards,
Rudi S.

[Chris von D]

Those uniforms look very smart, even to this day. I think the Germans had the smartest looking uniforms by far. (If I thought the Russians or Brits did I would say so).

I think the Soviets had the best looking winter hats, Ushanka. I have a genuine Soviet 1983 model and still have the box and everything I recieved when I bought it from Russia. A piece of history and I like the idea of Soviet workmanship clothing a capitalist pig dog like me

The best summer hats are the Australian slouch hat, with the side brim up and the rising sun with the roos or whatever on it.

One day I'll have to get one of those for my Ushanka as I took the Commie badge off. Looks cool but gives the wrong impression. I'm not a commie.

I take it the above German uniform fabric was coarse wool? Probably changing as the war progressed due to shortages.

The modern German soldier looks ok but their helmets are awful. So the Germans got the Yanks helmet and the Yanks got the Germans' helmet ... what gives?

The German army need to change helmets to look German again. As it is, the Americans look like a modern day Wehrmacht.

There is a good reason the US army call their helmets the "Fritz helmet".

As for who had the worst dressed army, take your pick. I know that the Australian army had vastly inferior clothing than the Americans... seems like some things never change.