Oradour

[101stDoc]

Can you explain why they are terrosists?

Do you understand the definition of a terrorist? And that there is such a thing as domestic terrorism?

These individuals are not freedom fighters. For the most part, they do not care who they kill, nor their own lives. They're cold blooded murderers.

These people are NOT uniformed members of ANY recognized military force. They're a bunch of civilians (mostly) running around with AK-47s, mortars & RPGs. That simple.

Their mission is to kill the people they see as their enemy and cause as much terror, anger and resentment as they can to rouse both domestic and world opinion against their enemies. It's all about fear. The very essence of what terrorism is about.

And don't confuse the Iraqi terrorists with the French resistance in WW2. They're two very very different cases. Tho the resistance did engage in terrorist acts at times. I suppose it would be fair to say that some of the resistance members were terrorists.

You can agree or disagree. But I would strongly urge you to visit Iraq and see for yourself.

Just make sure you have a couple dozen bodyguards...

Doc

[101stDoc]

No & neither do I argue with American know it alls.

Have you been to Iraq? Thought not.

Educate yourself before opening your inevitable can of worms.

And stick to the subject, if you're mature enough.

Doc

[matthall]

Ok Doc, I understand your position now. I do agree that some (or most) of them certainly qualifies under the definition of terrorists, but I think it's a bit unfair to call all of them that. There are those who try only to attack what I would call legitimate targets, such as foreign military. The same goes for french resistance or any antigerman resistance during WWII, but ratio of freedom fighters vs terrorists differs largely in compare to the Iraqi situation.

And no, I would not want to go there, for several reasons, mostly because it's not safe.

regards

Matt

[Craig Soward]

Matt,

A quote was taken out of what I wrote previously, with some left out, to make it look like I said "they were all terrorists in Iraq; this was NOT what I said (in future if using a quote, make sure you get it all, or dont bother).
I was trying to point out how it seems fine today, for the USA to call these people terrorists when during WW2, resistance groups fought against the occupiers, in a similar way to what is going on at present (Reads like another conflict the USA fought in South East Asia back in the late 1960's / early 1970's). I know this is off the original topic but just wanted to clarify things...

Doc,

Could it be possible that these Terrorists are fighting to get the USA out of their country, after they ILLEGALLY invaded it & that civilians being killed is just a consequence of these operations? I am in no hurry to visit Iraq, maybe I will wait till it is turned into a colonial outpost of the USA, with McDONALDS & the like.

[matthall]

Craig, I wasn't referring to your post at all, so don't worry. I was just expressing what seems to be a problem with media all around the world, because even in here in Sweden they refer to everyone opposing the US and allied forces in Iraq, as terrorists. And, as I wrote in my previous post, that may well be true for some or even most of them, but not all.

Which could lead us back to Oradur, the fact that it's not easy even today to know what happened. Did the germans kill all the men? Yes. Did they burn down the church? Maybe not, but they sure was responsible for putting the people there.

regards

Matt

[101stDoc]

after they ILLEGALLY invaded it

Matter of opinion.

I'm not surprised at your "The US is gonna colonize Iraq" ramblings. It's the typical banter of anti-American punditry around the globe.

Your statement about me being an American is just more proof you are nothing but a bigot. Want me to slag off Australia? There's plenty for me to roast your nation over the coals, but some of us have a level of decorum.

Doc

[101stDoc]

but I think it's a bit unfair to call all of them that.

OK, how about this then. Something like 99.99% of them are terrorists. That OK? Because a vast majority of them show absolutely no care in where they bomb or attack anyone.

Toss in the civilians killed by the TERRORISTS, and the civilians killed as a RESULT of their actions...

If Iraq wants to get back into gear, they should stop killing the contractors that are there to get their water, electricity etc back up and let them do their job. They're civilians, there to help them. It's a great example of the near total idiocy of that entire region.

Probably also a good diea to stop blowing up trucks carrying things like meds, water & food.

Doc

[matthall]

If Iraq wants to get back into gear, they should stop killing the contractors that are there to get their water, electricity etc back up and let them do their job. They're civilians, there to help them. It's a great example of the near total idiocy of that entire region.
Doc

I do agree. Whatever we may think of the way Saddam was ousted, I agree with the fact that he had to go. Even if he didn't have weapons of massdestruction, his aim was always to obtain them.
But it is not an easy task of bringing stability in the region.

regards

Matt

[Craig Soward]

Matt,

Cheers , just wanted to clarify my comments buddy, so no problems at all. My country Australia has gotten involved in this "Vietnam of the new Millenium" & many people are wanting to bring our soldiers home. With a federal election looming it will most likely be an election issue (George W & his cronies are already having their 5 cents worth now, supporting Conservative Prime Minister Howard).
I know this is off topic, so I apologise....
Yes, your point about the Oradour massacre is correct, my original point was to highlight that YES, WAFFEN SS soldiers commited atrocities but Russains & Allied (to a lesser extent than their Russain comrades) soldiers did too; however due to the Allied victory in WW2, this was largely kept quiet.
It wasnt long however, till the former Allies (USA & Great Britain) enlisted the help of some of their former enemies (including SS & Gestapo men), in fighting the Cold War against their former allies, the Russians.

[Craig Soward]

Doc,

No, I am not a bigot. I am just stating my opinions about some aspects of the USA's foreign policy & the so called "War against terror".

I dont consider myself illinformed about this, as my country is involved in the "war" & it is extensively covered here in the media. From all reports the people in the USA are now wanting out of there, so I say. leave them be, ;let them sort out their own squabbles. They have been fighting among themselves in the Middle East for 1000's of years & probably will be for another 1000, so time to cut your losses & "bring the boys home".

[101stDoc]

No, I am not a bigot.

It is extensively covered here in the media.

Two points:

Yes, you are a bigot. I quote you: "No & neither do I argue with American know it alls". Sounds like you're biased towards Americans. I made no statement relating to this, but it's the usualy battle cry of the idiot brigade on here.

Secondly, as to your media, it is just as biased and cocked up as most other nations. I have read articles online from Aussie publications, & many of them are just as biased and clueless as our own often are. Though your nation's papers take a more European approach, where they take an issue and tend to support it rather than try and show both sides of the issue. If you believe what you read in papers, you are truly a lamb to the slaughter.

I suppose you believe everything people like Michael Moore say as well. It would not surprise me.

May you someday be enlightened.

Doc

[101stDoc]

Even if he didn't have weapons of massdestruction, his aim was always to obtain them.

Give it time. They will be found...some day. People like Saddam do not surrender full stocks of stuff like this. It's not in his person to have done so.

Also important to remember, and this is often quickly "forgotten", that UN banned weapons WERE found during and after the invasion, ie the rockets.

Of course most of the world doesn't care if someone like Saddam is running things his way anyways. If they arn't doing business with him, they're hiding under the table with him.

Interesting that there are still some questions to answer if French and Russian companies were supplying Iraq with banned equipment after Desert Storm. DUnno bout the French, but I would not be surprised if some of the shadier Russian companies were...busy...


Doc

[Craig Soward]

I wonder whether to so called "Weapons of Mass Destruction" havent been found because a) they dont exist or b) They have MADE IN USA stamped on the side of them.

Remember that Saddam & America's other favourite person Osama Bin Laden, are both ex employees of Uncle Sam!

[Timo]

This thread is about Oradour. It's a forum about German forces in WW2.

[101stDoc]

I wonder whether to so called "Weapons of Mass Destruction" havent been found because a) they dont exist or b) They have MADE IN USA stamped on the side of them.

Perhaps they were made in Australia. Hrm. It wouldn't surprise me.

Doc