Halifax HR723 4th December 1943

[Icare9]

Halifax HR723 of 51 Squadron RAF was lost during the Leipzig raid. No records are readily available as to what happened to it.
3 years after the end of the war, the wedding ring of the pilot P/O Arthur Jack Salvage was returned to his widow. She is still alive and after so many years recalls that is was returned to her from Germany or the USA.
Had the Halifax crashed in occupied territory, it is likely that the local populace would have some record of it.
As his ring was the only personal effect returned, there is a mystery as to how it could have made its way to her "unaided" It had the pilots initials and their wedding date inscribed on it. It at least indicates that it crashed on land and not in the North Sea.

My purpose in posting here is to ask if there is any way of accessing German archives for flak batteries that may have claimed bombers that night. Also did any local papers report on bomber crashes in their area?

I am acting for the family of the rear gunner, Sgt Douglas Milliken RCAF, whose twin brother (also RCAF) recently died. His family want to trace their wartime records and have no known grave for their uncle. It is my hope that we may be able to trace where HR723 crashed and therefore where the crew may have been originally buried.

The family are contacting Canadian RCAF archives in case MREU records were copied. For the ring to appear 3 years after the war ended, it may have been "traded" to an American serviceman during the privations after the war, and any accompanying personal affects lost. Alternatively, a MREU team could have discovered the remains and were able to identify the remaining personal effect as belonging to the pilot. Unfortunately, that identification did not extend to identifying a grave site where he and presumably the rest of his crew now lie. we would like to at least identify the wreck site.

Another 51 Sqn Halifax HR782 was shot down by flak near Weiler, Boppard, near the Rhine. Surviving members of that crew reported seeing a bomber hit TWICE by flak and explode. as the two aircraft were only minutes apart at takeoff they were probably still somewhere "close" together and it is possible that the bomber they saw explode could be HR782 and if so the crash site could be "somewhere" to the east perhaps of Weiler. We don't as yet know whether the exploding bomber was ahead, astern or somewhere in between, nor the time between seeing the explosion and they themselves being shot down.

Another Halifax LW313 of 78 Squadron crashed on a bridge over the Nahe at Bad Munster am Stein, but that is quite a distance away and may not have been possible to see from HR782. Dead crew from both HR782 and LW313 at now in Rheinberg War Cemetery.

If a nightfighter shot them down, there is usually a claim report which would provide time and location, to verify which aircraft had been shot down. We don't have any record of a nightfighter claim. I would also expect an RAF crew to know the difference between a bomber being shot down and being hit by flak, especially to note it was hit twice.

The fact that no crew were identified implies a catastrophic event as none appear to have been able to bale out, when even if killed, there is likely to be identification. So, somewhere over Germany, the aircraft and crew vanished from available records.

Hence my appeal for records of crashed aircraft that night. It seems that only 2 this and a Lancaster, are still untraced as to where they crashed.

Possibly in the area between Bonn and Mainz that night 2 or 3 Halifaxes crashed. Can any further details be located? 51 Sqdn historians and several other Aviation forums have been contacted, but my thinking is that we need to research this from the German angle if possible. Do you have any experts here who can provide any help as to where to investigate? Families of at least 2 other crew mwmbers are alo hoping that their loved ones can be finally traced.

My apologies for a long first post, but I believe we are very close to finding these last pieces if the jigsaw and can give these families some comfort that there loved ones can finally be found.

My thanks in advance for all helpful information and assistance.

For further interest, please go to the PPRuNe website http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/ ... 11-38.html

[Andy H]

I'm sure you'll have these but I thought I would post them anyway

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_det ... ty=2940844

and

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_det ... ty=1076872

and

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... lBack=-1#5

Regards and good luck

[Icare9]

Firstly an apology.
I transposed the serial number, it is actually HR732, not 723. I've typed it into so many forums and documents and yet got it wrong here.
Secondly, how can I access German archives for flak regiments that claimed aircraft on 4th December 1943;
How do I access German newspaper archives in the Frankfurt area that may have recorded bomber wrecks for that night?
How do I access records for whatever labour or other units were involved in the recovery and analysis of crash wreckage for disposal of the aircraft and any crew remains?
I suppose I could start with the Air Attache at the German Embassy, but in case others know better, please let me know.
The feeling I have is that the crew have been buried as "unknowns" in Rheinberg Cemetery. Is there any way of linking, perhaps a crew of 7 with date of 4th December 1943? I think they were concentrated from near their crash site, but the linking documentation has since been lost.
Any help appreciated, it seems we may be nearing the end of this quest.