110 torpedo bombers?

[jerijerod]

I was reading Cajus Beckers "Luftwaffe war diaries" and had a thought over the weekend.

One of the themes he exposes was the Luftwaffe's lack of a dedicated torpedo bombing wing and suitable aircraft for such a task, as the He 111 and Ju 88 were too slow and ponderous.

We were discussing it at work and i suggested that maybe the Me 110 could have been modified for the purpose, one of the other guys said that if a Beaufighter could be modified why not the 110?

I know that the Fw 190 was also capable of carrying a torpedo.

I'm just wondering if the 110 could have been a suitable torpedo bomber and whether anyone else thinks a geschwader of torpedo carrying zerstorer would have been a good thing for the Luftwaffe?

[phylo_roadking]

Eric Brown's wartime testing of various marks of Me110 indicated that it wasn't a great aircraft at low speeds; it was very heavy on the controls unless right up at the top of its performance envelope...at which time there was enough air rushing fast enough over it's small tail control surfaces. Thus it only really handled well at very high speed. And part of the problem with THIS was that it was ALSO very sluggish at accelerating to those speeds from cruising speeds. In other words - it was perfectly designed as a bomber zerstorer...as envisioned in the mid-1930s ...

It could function as a light bomber at a pinch, but i don't think from above that it had the finesse of control at relatively low speed and altitude for torpedo bombing, and certainly couldn't have got clear of AA fire afterwards LOL

[jerijerod]

cool thanks for that Phylo, I hadn't really thought about that lol

But as a quick thought, would that have made it any worse than the RN's standard Fairey Swordfish? I mean the stringbag was exceptionally realiable but under a disciplined AA barrage and with enemy fighters it was in serious trouble, look at Esmonde's attack on the Scharnhorst, Gniesnau and Prinz Eugen.

[phylo_roadking]

The Stringbag was very much a slowmoving weapons platform - remarkly like a modern USAF A10 Warthog LOL. It took a LOT of punishment to bring down - and on those head-on, slow-moving torpedo attacks with each single aircraft at a a time getting ALL the attention and it got plenty. However, being a biplane it was highly manouverable at its slow speeds, unlike the overly-stable at slow speed 110. Where the Swordfish REALLY excelled however in exactly how much it would carry...a 1500lb ordnance load..and in the last few years of the war ASW aircraft were carrying three crew, an ASV Mk X radar and rockets and mines! They were actually HIGHLY successful in this role - in September 1944, Swordfish from HMS Vindex, escorting a convoy to Northern Russia, sank FOUR Uboats in a single voyage. In their earlier career they had dropped mines by day and night across the North Sea in early 1940, acted as bombers in Norway, and in the Med against urban targets in Italy...even on at least two occasions making bombing raids on occupied Channel coast ports during the Battle of France!

Their torpedo attacks may have been the "glamorous" ones, but by far a minority of their war-long activities, and the torpedo carrier role came to an end in 1942 as a result of the losses during the Channel Dash.

[jerijerod]

Out of the 18 crew men that were involved in the channel dash attack only 3 survived. But then they were going in against 3 German Cruisers and an umbrella of Fw 190's and 109's without their Spitfire escort.

Cool i didn't know about the mine laying or the attacks on Itailan urban targets. I do like the swordfish, it was an awesome plane. I guess if you can jinx around a little bit rather than flying low and straight at slow speed it would be an advantage

I had just been trying to think of an alternative to the He 111 and Ju 88 torpedo bombers. Guess its back to the think tank!

[phylo_roadking]

Esmonde's attack on the battleships was "necessarily" played up at the time...as the British attempt to bar the Channel was a complete and abject failure LMAO There were dozens of squadrons on standby and hundreds of aircraft flown off - the vast majority of which failed to find the enemy in the dark and poor weather/visibility...after two months of planning and anticipation!!!

[jerijerod]

my grandmother was working on the RN switchboards in Chatham when they made the dash... apparently one Admiral couldn't be got hold of because he was playing golf. She also reprimanded one senior officer for using such colourful language in the presence of a lady!

I can understand why for the properganda value of the attack, i definatly believe he deserved his VC. He's buried around the corner from me, i went to visit his grave, fresh flowers and an airfix model swordfish had been laid recently.

[phylo_roadking]

I used to have a list of the resources the RAF and RN mustered to keep a watch on Brest and any possible route home for the KM - and on the day it's a famous trivium of WWII that aircraft of EVERY type then in service with the RAF and FAA were flown off against the ships. The RN had tasked a HUGE force of vessels to be ready, including no less than thirty-one submarines in total, several of which were on an alternating watch right up to the entrance to Brest for two months...and they STILL missed them!

(Always made me think that all the pundits who said that the KM could close the Channel to the RN JUST by using mines and UBoats in the event of Sealion were entirely piddling in the wind...

[jerijerod]

it was a bit of an egg on face moment for the RAF and RN! I mean the cream of the German navy sail almost unmolested up the [b]English channel[/b] and we miss all three ships!

Absolutly, the KM would never have been able to protect the barges even with Luftwaffe support. I read somewhere that the RN wouldn't even need to shoot at the barges as the wash generated by a destroyer was enough to capsize one and that the German troops were told to open fire with their Karbiners at the RN should they get close!!!!

Had the Luftwaffe had a good torpedo force though in 1940 that would have slowed the RN response but i guess its all hypothetical!