Malmedy Massacre

[John W. Howard]

This is one of the better threads dealing with this tragedy and I applaud all who have participated in it. Timo, I am delighted you arrived to add your extensive knowledge on the subject; good to hear from you again!!
One of the sadder aspects of Malmedy/Baugnez is the unknown number of innocent German soldiers who lost their lives in the Ardennes, when US troops retaliated for the massacre by not taking prisoners. The perpetrators at Baugnez/Malmedy were responsible for more deaths than those found in the field at the crossroads. Best wishes.

[panzermahn]

Many were cut down as they ran for the safety of the woods or nearby sheds. A few even tried to hide in the Cafe Bodware that was located next to the intersection, but for some reason the Germans did not chase them or hunt them down. So essentially, if they could get out of eyesight of the German soldiers they were safe.

http://www.30thinfantry.org/malmedy.shtml

SS-Oberscharführer Hans Siptrott continues: “Then I drove my tank through the field and came to a halt about 300 meters past the crossroads. My other tanks (I commanded five of them), stayed on the road, and arrived at the crossroads. As I started to move forward, suddenly and without reason, my gunner Fleps fired his pistol two times into the group of prisoners.

“I kicked him but hurt my leg when I also hit the inside of the tank. I was standing in the cupola and my radio was still active, so that my crew could hear me if I called to Fleps. My radio operator Otto Arnold had his radio active and could confirm later that I never ordered Fleps to shoot the prisoners. And it would have been useless firing at a distance of 300 meter with a pistol. Then I continued moving my tanks in the direction of Ligneuville. When I arrived at the unit I immediately informed my CO of what happened at the crossroads, and the message was sent to Army-Corps for further research.“

[Hans Siptrott told me in a private that if he had received the order to shoot the prisoners, he never would had let Fleps shoot with his pistol, but instead would have used the tank’s machine guns!]

http://home.wxs.nl/~wijer037/Bulge/Forms/Baugnez.html

[TimoWr]

Many were cut down as they ran for the safety of the woods or nearby sheds. A few even tried to hide in the Cafe Bodware that was located next to the intersection, but for some reason the Germans did not chase them or hunt them down. So essentially, if they could get out of eyesight of the German soldiers they were safe.

On the other hand the SS executed those who were within eyesight but were wounded, pretended to be dead or were simply to scared or confused to run away. Forensic evidence shows that much. Also, since the 30th US Infantry Division wasn't involved in the crossroads massacre, this is yet another secundary source.

SS-Oberscharführer Hans Siptrott continues: “Then I drove my tank through the field and came to a halt about 300 meters past the crossroads. My other tanks (I commanded five of them), stayed on the road, and arrived at the crossroads. As I started to move forward, suddenly and without reason, my gunner Fleps fired his pistol two times into the group of prisoners.

“I kicked him but hurt my leg when I also hit the inside of the tank. I was standing in the cupola and my radio was still active, so that my crew could hear me if I called to Fleps. My radio operator Otto Arnold had his radio active and could confirm later that I never ordered Fleps to shoot the prisoners. And it would have been useless firing at a distance of 300 meter with a pistol. Then I continued moving my tanks in the direction of Ligneuville. When I arrived at the unit I immediately informed my CO of what happened at the crossroads, and the message was sent to Army-Corps for further research.“

[Hans Siptrott told me in a private that if he had received the order to shoot the prisoners, he never would had let Fleps shoot with his pistol, but instead would have used the tank’s machine guns!]

Siptrott, who was one of the SS soldiers convicted for the massacre, indeed tried very hard (with help from HIAG) to turn deliberate murder into accidental killing. Unfortunately he is hardly an unbiased source.

[HeinrichFrey]

http://www.historynet.com/magazines/wor ... page=1&c=y
http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/ ... report.pdf
are usefull links.
Regards
Matt

[Stephan H.]

An excellent book on this topic by an academic is James Weingartner's Crossroads of Death: The Story of the Malmedy Massacre and Trial. Weingartner's book details all aspects of the event and is particularly excellent in dealing with the trail and post trail implications of the investigation. His chapter on McCarthy's involvement is fascinating for those unfamiliar with his role. If you have interest in this topic and have not read the book, I highly recommend it. Weingartner also authored the first academic treatment of LSAH titled Hitler’s Guard. It is definitely a dated book, given all the information now available, but also an excellent read if you can find a copy.

A general comment about shootings of unarmed POWs: Gerald Astor in his book A Blood Dimmed Tide about the Ardennes Offensive noted the climate created by the order of Sepp Diertich not to be concerned with POWs during the operation. Astor wrote that the order was meant not as a blanket authority to kill POWs but to not slow operations down because of them. Astor compared this order to one issued earlier by General Patton in Sicily. Now I'm writing from memory here, but if it serves me correctly, both orders were identical in language and tone. Astor notes that in Sicily there were subsequent shootings of unarmed Italian and German POWs as a result. This has become known (though not well known) as the Bicari Massacre. There is some basic information here on the incident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscari_massacre. For more information I highly recommend Weingartner, James (November 1989). "Massacre at Biscari: Patton and An American War Crime". The Historian (1): pp. 24-39.

Stephan

[panzermahn]

An excellent book on this topic by an academic is James Weingartner's Crossroads of Death: The Story of the Malmedy Massacre and Trial. Weingartner's book details all aspects of the event and is particularly excellent in dealing with the trail and post trail implications of the investigation. His chapter on McCarthy's involvement is fascinating for those unfamiliar with his role. If you have interest in this topic and have not read the book, I highly recommend it. Weingartner also authored the first academic treatment of LSAH titled Hitler’s Guard. It is definitely a dated book, given all the information now available, but also an excellent read if you can find a copy.

A general comment about shootings of unarmed POWs: Gerald Astor in his book A Blood Dimmed Tide about the Ardennes Offensive noted the climate created by the order of Sepp Diertich not to be concerned with POWs during the operation. Astor wrote that the order was meant not as a blanket authority to kill POWs but to not slow operations down because of them. Astor compared this order to one issued earlier by General Patton in Sicily. Now I'm writing from memory here, but if it serves me correctly, both orders were identical in language and tone. Astor notes that in Sicily there were subsequent shootings of unarmed Italian and German POWs as a result. This has become known (though not well known) as the Bicari Massacre. There is some basic information here on the incident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscari_massacre. For more information I highly recommend Weingartner, James (November 1989). "Massacre at Biscari: Patton and An American War Crime". The Historian (1): pp. 24-39.

Stephan

Hi Stephan

To add note to that, Professor Stanley Hirshson, who wrote a book on General Patton (General Patton: A Soldier's Life - 2002), had a presentation on American war crimes committed in Sicily 1943 at John D. Scalandra Institute of C.U.N.Y Graduate Center back in 1998. I believed he wrote a monograph on it but I am not too sure.

I have never seen a written order by any major sides in WW2 clearly specifying not to take prisoners, however I seen an order by the Italian CLN to the partisans indirectly not to take Italian RSI troops as POWs with certain stipulations

Thanks
Panzermahn

[Helmut]

Servus,
Years ago when I was stationed in Berlin, I had the opportunity to speak to Otto Becker who was a tank commander in KG Peiper. He told me that the POWs were shot while trying to flee. His story seemed somewhat implausible to me and left me with many questions and a lot of doubt.
One thing he told me that seemed plausible was that of the torture during his post war interrogation. He said he was interrogated by an American Master Sergeant. This man asked Becker if he enjoyed killing prisoners, a charge which Bekker denied. The Master Sergeant then proceeded to break one of Becker's fingers. This went on for several fingers. Looking at Becker's hands, one could see his fingers had been broken. He told me the Master Sergeant's name, which he said he would never forget but , sadly, I don't have Becker's memory and have forgotten the name.

Regards,

Helmut

[Johann-45]

I know that one mans name is on the wall on the memorial and he is still alive and well..

I have made my mind up about what exactly happend at Malmedy as i have been there, and met a LSSAH vet whom seen first hand all, and has told me what he saw. Not only that but the way he was treated after the war by US gaurds etc was simply down right bad.

Regards


Ps.Why has the Bombing of Malmedy not been looked into on a bigger scale? For three days the US bombed, after being told to stop by Allied forces on the third day, Hundereds US GIs and Civilians were killed in the end.

[L. Kafka]

On his Fox News show a couple of years, Bill O'Reilly stated that Americans executed Germans at Malmedy. He could have made a correction but that isn't like Bill to do in public. A few criticized himself for not setting the record straight but he never offered a correction.

[genstab]

The US Army was also guilty of instances of "not taking prisoners". It seems to happen in combat that prisoners fall somewhere between being an inconvenience to impossible to deal with, and there the war crime starts. An order not to take prisoners should be an unlawful order, otherwise anyone who earns a iving as a soldier had better expect no international law or human mercy to protect him in battle if he has no choice but to surrender. I'm just glad I was a sailor- and didn't have to face the Japanese in World War II.

Best regards,
Bill in Cleveland