Re: The Heer and the Party
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:35 pm
Hello Sid
Now I’m really disappointed. I asked for proof that the Waffen SS was expanded “because of the Nazi Regime was nervous about the Heer being a centre of power it couldn’t control”.
Besides your own unfounded interpretations (I thought I made it clear that I didn't want another dose of this), all that you seem to come up with substantial is Erlass 17.8.1938.
Compared to the act by Blomberg dated September 1934, this edict is remarkable in that it for the first time clearly states the military ambitions by the SS and doesn’t limit itself to duties of inner security. That this military aspect is directed against the outer enemy is made clear by that the Waffen SS being ngaged in the cadre of the Army (die mobile Verwendung im Rahmen des Kriegsheeres), subordinated to the Oberbefehlshaber der Wehrmacht. Both roles have obviously become equal. The Erlass 17.8,1938 thus is an invalid argument for your case in that it doesn’t limit the the Waffen SS to innerpolitical control functions, but adds a military component to its tasks while at the same time making it part of the organisation you pretend it was supposed to control. The sheer folly of such a claim is obvious.
The Erlass 17.8.1938 legitimizes the Waffen SS to have 4 separate Standarten (Regiments), 2 mobile Battalions, a pionier Battalion, signals and medics. This is as far as it went for the Waffen SS before the war started. How anybody could seriously think that with this force the Nazi Regime would be in position to control the Wehrmacht is beyond my comprehension.
Never it's existence did the Waffen-SS exceeded 10% of the whole Wehrmacht. You call this a counterweight, I don’t.
Why did Himmler put so much effort in the gaining foreign volunteers already in 1938 (Ich habe wirklich die Absicht, germanisches Blut in der ganzen Welt zu holen, zu rauben und zu stehlen wo ich kann, Himmler 8.11.1938) if the role of the Waffen SS was only been seen as a protection for the Regime in the sense of a military police force? That’s absurd. Wiking, Nordland, Skanderberg etc. the raised to protect the Führer against his Army?
The expansion of the Waffen SS peaked in mid 1944. That’s at the same time the Heer had lost any (small) political influence it ever enjoyed and the core elements of the Waffen SS had become indispensable to maintain the war effort, especially on the Western Front. There was certainly no reason for the Nazi Regime to fear the influence of the Heer at this time. As long as the Führer was alive, the Heer the vast majority of its officers were loyal not to the party maybe, but certainly to him. That’s what “apolitical” stands for here, BTW. This is proven by the fact that surrender took place only after he was dead, and the at the best marginal impact the assassination attempt had on the stability of the regime. So also by considering when the bigger part of the expansion took place, the is no reason to believe it was to counter the Heer.
I’m sorry to say but you have to do better than this to "establish" anything to me here.
Cheers
Hans
Now I’m really disappointed. I asked for proof that the Waffen SS was expanded “because of the Nazi Regime was nervous about the Heer being a centre of power it couldn’t control”.
Besides your own unfounded interpretations (I thought I made it clear that I didn't want another dose of this), all that you seem to come up with substantial is Erlass 17.8.1938.
Compared to the act by Blomberg dated September 1934, this edict is remarkable in that it for the first time clearly states the military ambitions by the SS and doesn’t limit itself to duties of inner security. That this military aspect is directed against the outer enemy is made clear by that the Waffen SS being ngaged in the cadre of the Army (die mobile Verwendung im Rahmen des Kriegsheeres), subordinated to the Oberbefehlshaber der Wehrmacht. Both roles have obviously become equal. The Erlass 17.8,1938 thus is an invalid argument for your case in that it doesn’t limit the the Waffen SS to innerpolitical control functions, but adds a military component to its tasks while at the same time making it part of the organisation you pretend it was supposed to control. The sheer folly of such a claim is obvious.
The Erlass 17.8.1938 legitimizes the Waffen SS to have 4 separate Standarten (Regiments), 2 mobile Battalions, a pionier Battalion, signals and medics. This is as far as it went for the Waffen SS before the war started. How anybody could seriously think that with this force the Nazi Regime would be in position to control the Wehrmacht is beyond my comprehension.
Never it's existence did the Waffen-SS exceeded 10% of the whole Wehrmacht. You call this a counterweight, I don’t.
Why did Himmler put so much effort in the gaining foreign volunteers already in 1938 (Ich habe wirklich die Absicht, germanisches Blut in der ganzen Welt zu holen, zu rauben und zu stehlen wo ich kann, Himmler 8.11.1938) if the role of the Waffen SS was only been seen as a protection for the Regime in the sense of a military police force? That’s absurd. Wiking, Nordland, Skanderberg etc. the raised to protect the Führer against his Army?
The expansion of the Waffen SS peaked in mid 1944. That’s at the same time the Heer had lost any (small) political influence it ever enjoyed and the core elements of the Waffen SS had become indispensable to maintain the war effort, especially on the Western Front. There was certainly no reason for the Nazi Regime to fear the influence of the Heer at this time. As long as the Führer was alive, the Heer the vast majority of its officers were loyal not to the party maybe, but certainly to him. That’s what “apolitical” stands for here, BTW. This is proven by the fact that surrender took place only after he was dead, and the at the best marginal impact the assassination attempt had on the stability of the regime. So also by considering when the bigger part of the expansion took place, the is no reason to believe it was to counter the Heer.
I’m sorry to say but you have to do better than this to "establish" anything to me here.
Cheers
Hans