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Well, it seems that this tabel is not very reliable if it comes to the figures from the Polish campaign.Hi Domen,
As far as my sources go, none of the above officers were KIA. That means that i am not sure as I have only one source: the 30th div history by Breithaupt.
I've got a table though listing casualties in Poland of this division. As you can see losses were rather heavy, mainly because this division took the brunt of the initial polish offensive near the Bzura.
It seems that these casualties:8. Army - 6282 killed:
Are in fact only those which were reported during the first phase of the battle of Bzura up to 12th of September - as the German daily reports from ww2 day by day state -, and - in case of 30. Infanterie-Division - only from the first day of the battle of Bzura, as R. Elble states in his book:24. ID - 472 KIA, 98 MIA (ww2 day by day says, that these are only casualties from the battle of Bzura and only until 12th of September 1939)
30. ID - 795 KIA, 617 MIA (same as above)
- I./26. infantry regiment from 30. ID between 13th and 20th of September - 39 KIA, 87 MIA, 58 WIA
17. ID - 291 KIA, 122 MIA (as above - ww2 day by day claims, that this is only from the battle of Bzura up to 12.09.1939)
- Aufklarungs Abteilung of 17. ID - 40 KIA, 57 WIA, number of MIA is not given
10. ID - 352 KIA, 76 MIA
First of all I'm discussing the exact breakdown of the German casualty figures (how many losses and what kinds of them did army X suffer, and how many and what kinds did division Y of army X suffered - etc.) - then I will maybe discuss its reliability - when I will have got its complete breakdown.
Well - small quotation which - I hope so - can open your eyes for some new facts:Somewhere in you're above rant you mention something about statistics of the germans. Well, my experience is, that they were a lot better than that of most armies in wwII.
That is why statistics from 8th Army and - especcialy - 30. Infanterie-Division - may be incomplete (as well when it comes to timeframe of those figures, and when it comes to numbers / amounts of casualties themselves).Niklas Zetterling and Anders Franksson discuss the Bagration casualties in their JSMS article "analyzing WWII E.Front battles", as an example of how the German reporting system coped [or rather - didn't cope - Domen] with defeats that made regular, periodical reporting incomplete. The ten-day reports of the armies have some gaping holes in them.
My point is to make an exact breakdown of the German casualties - and then, when I finish this - to compare it with the different versions of overall casualty figures. But the primary point is just to make a casualty breakdown.you're own personal struggle against the unreliability of german casualty figures or whatever your point is.
The majority of them were destroyed yet during the WW2 - so I suppose that these casualty figures are not included in any of the overall casualty accounts - I would also like to check if I am right in this case, while trying to make this casualty breakdown (it is simple - if I find out what were - according to the casualty reports - casualties of all divisions / brigades / other units of an army or a corps - except those, casualty figures of which were destroyed during the war - I will see if I was right in this case or not).More over - some of the German papers on casualties of their units (for example - 8. Infanterie-Division, 5. Panzer-Division) does not exist (some of them were destroyed yet during the WW2).
Ahaaa! Thats more like it - thanks!ericv wrote:Here is Division Eberhardt , according to Bellin's book the names changed from Landespolizeiregiment 1 and 2 to 243 and 244 Infanterieregiment on 1-9- 1939. I have come across other names as well however. Danziger IR 1 and 2 for example.. I hope someone can shed some more light on the correct names.
As you wish:There are bound to be more typos and mistakes in the previous lists, If you catch anymore please let me know.
Are you shure about the date?Ib: Rittmeister Wagner (+ 20-9-1939)
Is this the same Wagner - or some other one?According to Volksbund Hans-Jürgen Wagner died of wounds on 28/09/1939:
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Klinik Zamosc
I found info that he was heavily wounded during the night from 1st to 2nd of September in the village Uniszki Zawadzkie.What i can say is that according to the 11. divisional history, Oberst Klein was commander of IR 44 until he was wounded at or around 3. september 1939 during fighting around the Mlawa. His succesor was Oberstleutnant Wagner (previous commander of III./44). So I am pretty sure about that.
Hauptmann von Köckeritz was KIA on 16th of September during the battle of Kiernozia. Here are two photos of his Panzer IV after it was destroyed by Polish AT gun type 36 calibre 37mm:1. Panzerregiment
Kdr : Oberstleutnant Johannes Nedtwig
Adj : Hauptmann von Werlhof
I. : Major Koppenburg
II. : Major Dittmann (?)
2. : Hauptmann Hörst
8. : Hauptmann von Köckeritz
How long was he commanding it? In what period?It was a rather heavy wound, as Generalmajor Basler took temporary command of the division after that.
He had got a prosthesis as far as I know.but i am not sure that he completely lost his forearm though. I've got a photo depicting Briesen, Bursegk and Sieler after the battle soutwest of Oudenaarde (20-5-1940) on which it appears that Briesen not only has both forearms but also appears to be using them.