Scheer, Friesenland & Operation Felix

Srgt Rock · Post by **Srgt Rock** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:36 am

Had Spain entered WW II in 1941, one part of the operation Felix plan was to reinforce the Carnary islands both by air and by sea. Naval operations staff plans had intended to have Scheer aid in the naval reinforcement and probably counter any British responce. (FC on NA pg 145) The British had several transports loaded with supplies and troops ready to board to seize several Atlantic island groups in the event of German moves. (Roskill The War at Sea Vol 1) The planned start date was Feb 9, 1941.

I would like to examine the possible operations Scheer could have open to her and what counter moves the British would have most likely have done.

For Scheer to have had any hope of success I feel the Germans would need to provide some additional recon a/c to Scheer. Enter Friesenland. Friesenland was equiped to operated 2 Do 18s.

At the start of the operation, Friesenland would have provided direct escort to any transports moving from France to the Canary Islands and Scheer would have provided mid ocean distant cover. In addition, Scheer could have dispatched any prizes, such as Barneveld and her war materials cargo, that could aid in the defense of the Canary islands.

My thoughts are:
1. The British would have occupied the Azores and Cape Verde islands but would not have been able to quickly seize the Canary islands.

2. With the loss of Gibralter, the British would have no where to refuel her fleet in the central Atlantic

3. The Azores would be the best place for the British to establish a fueling base.

4. Scheer's best area to target would the tanker routes between the Azores and Port of Spain and Aruba.

5. Friesenand could have been equipped to operate 2 or 3 Fi167s by laying her funnel on its side and extending the platform she already had aft of her funnel to the forward edge of the bridge. (flight deck would be 120' X 54'.

Your thoughts? (I would love to run this on a war game program!!)

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:40 am

Sgt., the ACTUAL British counter to this operation SHOULD be available! As there were operational plans afoot to deal with Felix - including that portion worked up by Ian Fleming as Operation Goldeneye when seconded to Gibraltar...but I've yet to turn up major details of Goldeneye in one combined source....nor have I yet found confirmation that this Operational name applied only to Gib - or did it apply to the entire counter to Felix...?

Srgt Rock · Post by **Srgt Rock** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:09 am

There is very little available on operation Goldeneye. It seems to be worked up before the war. It implies that Gib could be held. I DO NOT feel that would have been possible due to the overwhelming strength the Luftwaffe could have brought to the fight. The battles off Greece and Crete in April and May demonstrate this.

I have read an account of what might have happened had Felix gone through that had Force H attacking Caldez as they withdrew. That seems very likely and the damage to the Spainish navy seems about right.

Andy H · Post by **Andy H** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:20 am

Active Spanish involvement in the war on Germany's side was very doubtful given the painful economic situation Spain found itself in after the Civil War etc.

The RN would have severely dented imports into Spanish ports via various means.

Regards

Srgt Rock · Post by **Srgt Rock** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:42 am

For the purpose of this tread, we will assume Spain enters the war.

I have reread The War at Sea and found Roskill's passage where he talks about the Atlantic islands. The British had only 2 transports that they kept in readiness. The Azores and Canary islands groups had a single cruiser patrolling in the vicinity. A couple of times, Force H sortied when it was thought the Germans were mounting and invansion force in Bourdeux.

IMHO: The British would have seized the Azores. They would have tried to intercept any naval reinforcements for the Canary islands.

Question: What forces did Spain have in place in the Canary islands at the time and what was the state of the airfields?

Andy H · Post by **Andy H** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:09 am

Ok, have you thought about the status of Portugal if Spain goes Axis?

Regards

Srgt Rock · Post by **Srgt Rock** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 3:37 am

Andy:

I vote for Portugal to take the neutrallity road. They had just seen the string of stunning German blitzkreg victories and could expect to suffer the same fate. Britian hadn't been much of a help to her allies thus far.

phylo_roadking · Post by **phylo_roadking** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:09 am

There is very little available on operation Goldeneye. It seems to be worked up before the war.

I think A plan existed pre-war, but I'm not sure that the "Goldeneye" operational tag was given to it until Fleming was sent to Gib in 1941 to update the rock's section of it - greatly LOL

Troy Tempest · Post by **Troy Tempest** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:51 pm

I think Portugal would have stayed neutral rather than gone in actively. That way they don't incur the wrath of Britain, cause animosity with Spain, and don't give Germany anything to worry about. If things had gone very well for Germany, say, defeating Russia, I think Portugal would then throw her hat in the Axis ring.