How guilty is the entire Wehrmacht of war crimes?

[Andy H]

A book worth looking at is The Wehrmacht: History, Myth, Reality by Wolfram Wette.

Wette spent twenty-five years working at the MGFA, Germany's Military History Research Institute, before taking a professorship at the University of Freiburg in 1998. He collaborated extensively on volumes of Germany's official history of the Second World War, as well as writing no fewer than five independent works of military history.

Regards

[valhalla]

*Moderator deletion*

A post breaking the rules for using the War Crimes section was deleted.
p_r

[Quasimodo]

Hello,


I saw on the Belgian television a documentairy (in 6 parts of each 50 min.)about the question:
Was the Wehrmacht involved directly or non directly in the war crimes ?
The documentary was build on "new information", released from Russia and from the UK.
(In the UK was a castle were high German officers (prisoners) were put together, without doing anything.
So they discused the war what happend.But the castle was full of microphones, so all the conversations were 24h / 24h observed.
From these conversations the program makers knows that the highest officers were informed about the war crimes)
The conclusion after the 6 parts was that the war crimes could not happen without the help of the Wehrmacht.
The highst officers had to say "No, we do not participate in this. No , we don't support this"
Most of them were aware that it happend, but most of them did not react on it.

This is not my conclusion, but the conclusion of the program makers.

Everywere in the community you will have "bad people".
Very difficult to avoid this.

This is the most difficult topic about WWII.

Quasimodo

[Opa]

Being informed does not mean participating, especially in a bloody dictatorship! What do these German haters think--the Third Reich was some form of democracy for Germans? The Gestapo zealots (real Nazis) would have loved to get their hands on Wehrmacht dissidents.

Otherwise, nothing beyond the guilt of individual soldiers for DOING (not for knowing, that's a sick charge), is proven yet. Individual soldiers may have erred, but the Wehrmacht as an organization (14 million or more) did not.

[John W. Howard]

Hello Gents:
I am sure there were members of the Wehrmacht guilty of warcrimes, jut as there were Allied soldiers guilty as well; in the heat of battle things happen, often committed by people, who under less stressful situations would not resort to such acts. The mass-murder ordered by the Nazi regime was something most German soldiers could do little about, even if they had known for certain that such acts were taking place. There was a war on, and as a soldier they were doing their best to fight for their loved ones and homeland. Some may have known for certain such acts were taking place, others may have heard rumors they found difficult to believe. Others thought Hitler would never permit such things if he knew about them; it was those evil advisors of his. In short, there is a momentum to history which is difficult to stop, even when one is aware of all of the facts, and few if any ever are. And if one does know what can one do? Put yourself in the shoes of one humble Leutnant, who knows for a fact that people are being exterminated at Treblinka; what would you do about it? If you can come up with a definitive answer, you are a better man than I. Best wishes.

[Michael Miller / ABR]

Cooperation between the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht and Heinrich Himmler's SS/Police organization was so close and so well documented that it is impossible to exclude the Wehrmacht from culpability in the worst excesses of the war. The generals, without offering any resistance, signed off on placing all rear area security in the hands of Higher SS and Police Leaders and Sipo/SD Einsatzgruppen; they did not object because they found the assistance of the SS/Police in this regard to be to their benefit. The Einsatzgruppen did not carry out their operations in secrecy. The Army knew what they were up to, and provided them with the equipment and logistical support they needed to "pacify" the occupied eastern territories. This does not mean that over 14 million men can be stamped as murderers and racists, and it's true that there wasn't much that an individual soldier could do to stop the madness even if he disapproved. But one cannot disassociate the German military from the Einsatzgruppen, the deportation of Jews, the massacre of "hostages" in the East, the West, the Balkans, and Norway, and the identification- by commanders such as von Manstein and von Reichenau- of Operation Barbarossa as an ideological war against "Sub-Human Jewry". There's just too much proof, in the form of official orders, snapshots/diaries/letters from individual German soldiers, and eyewitness testimony of survivors, bystanders, and perpetrators. It's good that there is a "War Crimes" forum here now; it was a long time coming. The "honorable Wehrmacht" was inextricably bound with the underlying and overall criminality of the Third Reich.

A good link on the subject: Wehrmacht Units Implicated in War Crimes, at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23393


~ Mike

Translation of Document No. NOKW-309
Copy AOK 6
Sect. Ia-File No. 7

Army H.Qu., 10 October 1941

Subject: Conduct of Troops in Eastern Territories.

Regarding the conduct of troops towards the bolshevistic system, vague ideas are still prevalent in many cases. The most essential aim of war against the Jewish-bolshevistic system is a complete destruction of their means of power and the elimination of Asiatic influence from the European culture. In this connection the troops are facing tasks which exceed the one-sided routine of soldiering. The soldier in the Eastern territories is not merely a fighter according to the rules of the art of war but also a bearer of ruthless national ideology and the avenger of bestialities which have been inflicted upon German and racially related nations.

Therefore the soldier must have full understanding for the necessity of a severe but just revenge on subhuman Jewry. The Army has to aim at another purpose, i.e. the annihilation of revolts in hinterland, which, as experience proves, have always been caused by Jews.

The combating of the enemy behind the front line is still not being taken seriously enough. Treacherous, cruel partisans and degenerate women are still being made prisoners-of-war and guerilla fighters dressed partly in uniform or plain clothes and vagabonds are still being treated as proper soldiers, and sent to prisoner-of-war camps. In fact, captured Russian officers talk even mockingly about Soviet agents moving openly about the roads and very often eating at German field kitchens. Such an attitude of the troops can only be explained by complete thoughtlessness, so it is now high time for the commanders to clarify the meaning of the pressing struggle.

The feeding of the natives and of prisoners-of-war who are not working for the Armed forces from Army kitchens is an equally misunderstood humanitarian act as is the giving of cigarettes and bread. Things which the people at home can spare under great sacrifices and things which are being bought by the command to the front under great difficulties, should not be given to the enemy by the soldier even if they originate from booty. It is an important part of our supply.

When retreating the Soviets have often set buildings on fire. The troops should be interested in extinguishing of fires only as far as it is necessary to secure sufficient numbers of billets. Otherwise the disappearance of symbols of the former bolshevistic rule even in the form of buildings is part of the struggle of destruction. Neither historic nor artistic considerations are of any importance in the Eastern territories. The command issues the necessary directives for the securing of raw material and plants, essential for war economy. The complete disarming of the civilian population in the rear of the fighting troops is imperative considering the long vulnerable lines of communications. Where possible, captured weapons and ammunition should be stored and guarded. Should this be impossible because of the situation of the battle, the weapons and ammunition will be rendered useless. If isolated partisans are found using firearms in the rear of the army drastic measures are to be taken. These measures will be extended to that part of the male population who were in a position to hinder or report the attacks. The indifference of numerous apparently anti-Soviet elements which originates from a "wait and see" attitude, must give way to a clear decision for active collaboration. If not, no one can complain about being judged and treated a member of the Soviet system.

The fear of German counter-measures must be stronger than threats of the wandering bolshevistic remnants. Regardless of all future political considerations the soldier has to fulfill two tasks:

1.) Complete annihilation of the false Bolshevist doctrine of the Soviet State and its armed forces.

2.) The pitiless extermination of foreign treachery and cruelty and thus the protection of the lives of military personnel in Russia.

This is the only way to fulfill our historic task to liberate the German people once and for all from the Asiatic-Jewish danger.

Commander-in-Chief

(signed) von Reichenau

Generalfeldmarschall

[jmreynolds]

An interesting book was written by a man named Sonke Neitzel titled Tapping Hitler's Generals. It contains recent(5years or so) declassified transcripts of conversations by POW German Officers, typically colonel and above. I've gathered that the Wehrmacht was not as innocent as spme have been lead to believe. While they are not fully guilty or innocent, they are duplicit in some crimes by ignoring the fact that they have been commited. As we all know the Allies are just as guilty of war crimes as the Axis. The victors called it "the cost of waging war".

[lwd]

.... As we all know the Allies are just as guilty of war crimes as the Axis. The victors called it "the cost of waging war".

This was not only irrelevant it is fallacious on at least two levels. IE we don't all know it because it's not true.

[Quasimodo]

Hi,

I agree, that also "the liberator" commit war crimes.
I know a story in MKB Dishoek (Netherlands), where Oblt Lange and Lt Eschershausen were shot with 2 bullets in the back of the head after very hard fithings.(between 28 Oct 1944 and 03 Nov 1944)
At the moment they were shot, the battle was over and they were already disarmed.They were both shot with their arms in the air.
This because the Germans fought like hell till the last bullet.
They were killed as "compensation" for all the killed (in the battle) English soldiers, NCO's and Officers.
The Germans killed 8 English Officers and 2 English Sergeants in the battle.(an unknown amout of soldiers)
The English commander (Lt Col Philips) of the 47 R.M.Commando was aware what happend.

The winner of a war is always right.(I didn't say that the Germans were right ! )

[lwd]

...
I agree, that also "the liberator" commit war crimes.

I don't think anyone has seriously contested that. However the Nazi regime institutalized war crimes they were not only condoned they were ordered from the highest levels down.

The winner of a war is always right.(I didn't say that the Germans were right ! )

AGain this is a bit of a stawman and often used by apologist.

[jmreynolds]

Some of what happened is the Allies supplied partisans knowing that the Germans would seek terrible retribution on the population. A good example is the Heydrich assassination. Another is supplying Tito's forces in Yugoslavia.

[phylo_roadking]

Moderator's Note - at this point let me remind posters that this thread AND SECTION is for German/Wehrmacht war crimes, not Allied ones. Nor does the Forum permit comparing "degrees" of deeds committed by combatants.

[jmreynolds]

Was the average German soldier punished for committing war crimes? I should say if caught or prosecuted. Since officers were hanged or imprisoned, did sargeants etc face the same thing?

[lwd]

Do you mean by the allies or the Germans? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes in both cases although NCOs had a higher probability of being prosecuted.

[Domen123]

Another deed of Wehrmacht (at least if it comes to camp in Kielce):

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=30238