Großdeutschland Stugs/Stuhs

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Apollyon
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Großdeutschland Stugs/Stuhs

Post by Apollyon » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:52 pm

What was the ratio of Stug G's to Stuh 42's

Were any Stug IV's ever equiped with a 10.5 cm gun?

Thanks in advance.

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Post by C.GILLONO » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:44 am

Were any Stug IV's ever equiped with a 10.5 cm gun?
No as far as is known. I do not think this was impossible though.
Amateurs talk tactics, historians study logistics, but what about amateur historians?

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Check this site

Post by Ron Klages » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:55 am

Go to site below, click on KStN and then on Artillerie and you will find a lot of TOEs for Stug units.
Generally in a StuG Brigade or Abteilung there were 21 StuGs and 9 StuHs authorizes.

Brigade or abteilung stab with 1 StuG = 1
Battery stab with 1 StuG x 3 batteries = 3
each battery with 6 StuGs and 3 StuHs x 3 batteries = 18 StuGs and 9 StuHs

in other words each battery had 2 platoons each with 3 StuG and 1 platoon with 3 StuHs

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Post by Vor » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:25 pm

There were only 12 StuH's based on the F chassis. They all went to Lenningrad, iirc. So, the only chance for the GD to have them would be the newer production G's, and I think those came out very close to '43.

So, a better question to ask might be the ratio of 75L24/75L42 StuGs for '42

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Post by Vor » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:26 pm

Sorry, misread your post. Thought you were talking about 1942

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Additional Data

Post by Ron Klages » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:45 am

Apollyon,

I went back to delivery records that I have, Zuführung RH 10/350, and the data I have shows the delivery of only 8 StuH 42s to StuG. Brigade "GD" during the war. These 8 were issued in January 1945 and were transported by train number 1946 on 19 January 1945. I do not have a date for receipt of these 8 by "GD".

Also when I checked the strength report from January 1945 it reported that Artillery Brigade "GD" showed 8 StuH 42s in transit and 32 StuG III L48s also in transit.


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Ron Klages
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Stu.Gesch.Brig. GD 1945

Post by Martin Block » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:38 pm

Only problem is that none of these guns ever reached the intended unit. The train(s) loaded with the StuG and StuH ended up in Posen (Poznan) on 18.1.1945 which was about to be cut of by advancing Russian forces. As far as I could establish the guns were almost equally distributed among Stu.Gesch.E.u.A.Abt. 200 and 500 and employed in the area.
Personnel of Stu.Gesch.Brig. GD had to wait about three weeks before it was supplied with 31 Pz. IV/70(V) instead.

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Post by Apollyon » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:10 pm

So all Sturmgeschutzes delivered to GD had the 7.5cm gun ?

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Post by Martin Block » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:36 pm

Until 1. April 1944 all status reports do show only StuG III. The report for 1.5.1944 is missing but the report for 1.6.1944 suddenly shows 2 StuH 42 with Stu.Gesch.Brig. GD. They are still there in the 1.7.1944 report. The 1.8.1944 report is missing again but in the 1.9.1944 report they are no longer listed.
So what I can say is that at least from April or May until July or August 1944 the unit fielded 2 StuH 42, that's all.

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Piece of the puzzle

Post by donwhite » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:40 am

This is slightly off topic ,but having benefited previously from Ron & Martin's delivery/dispatch figures in various forums , I assumed (mistakenly) that the StuG.Bde 'GD' received the dispatched StuG's on or about the time that it transferred from Miliau south to Kielce with PzG.Div 'Brandenberg' in mid Jan'45 as part of PzK 'GD' and that the 2nd dispatch of Pz IV/70(v) was simply a 'refill' after the furnace of battle/long retreat etc had attritioned the originally diapatched units away. Was StuG.Bde 'GD' then still tactically subordinate to PzG.Div 'Brandenberg' during the 3x week time frame until the 2nd dispatch of AFV's arrived?

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Re: Großdeutschland Stugs/Stuhs

Post by Kelvin » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:13 am

In my opinion, StuH 42 with 10.5cm howitzer was less effective in dealing with enemy tanks. It seem like Wespe. So I don't know why StuG brigade had mixed StuG III and StuH 42. As far as I know, with the exception of Sturmgeschutz Brigades, only GD , FBD and FGD had mixed StuG/StuH.

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Re: Großdeutschland Stugs/Stuhs

Post by Rev Rico » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:29 am

Yes, the 105 was not as good as the 75 in the AT role. The 105 did have limited HEAT ammo that helped.
It should be noted that the Stug Bgds were originaly part of the artillery branch and were intended to lend fire support to infantry. That may explain the rationale for the presence of 105s. IOW, they were thrust into the AT role out of necessity not design.

FWIW the 280 Stug Bgd went to Arnhem vs. the 1st Brit Airborne with 3 StuHs (105s) and 7 StuGs (75s).

Bob

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