Highway in corridor.

General WWII era German military discussion that doesn't fit someplace more specific.
Pirx
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Highway in corridor.

Post by Pirx » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:55 pm

Hi.
Last days i read interesting article in newspaper "Polityka", about highway through Polish corridor to east Prussia. I was suprised that projects of highway was made in 1933 by Frtiz Todt, and terms were under discution between Poland and Germany since 1928! And what was suprised for me, both countries were close to sign agreement in 1938. However in september 1938 Hitler has changed conditions. Or rather he add one: Highway and Danzig to Germany. But in mid 1938 conditions were like that. Highway from Germany could enter to Polish territory near Chojnice, and to east Prussia near Grudziac, so this route would goes south from Danzig but not through territory of Free City.
Highway should be built and exploitationed by company from neutral Sweden. On highway could be German road codex, but police patrol should be mixed.
No word about exteritorial highway. this was added by Hitler in november 1938. From German side agreement was preliminary accepted by Goering, and as wrote author of article, German goverment to mid 1938 was propitious to this plan.

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Post by Njorl » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:10 am

Hmm, that's interesting. Thank you kindly for sharing this knowledge.

Cheers!

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:51 am

I'd have to dig to find the references, but according to Hitler's Disciples, Göring tried very hard to maintain good relations with Poland for a long time.
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Post by phylo_roadking » Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:44 pm

Yep, sadly the lack of knowledge shown on here many times by locals is very depressing. NOT your fault at all, by any means. Denazification of Germans has led to so many of them knowing nothing worth a damn about their own history, good OR bad. And I assume its the same in ex- Warsaw Pact countries like Poland. The education system was more than biased, and now the firsthand "verbal sources" are quickly being depleted by Old Father Time :-(
This was know as the Danzig Corridor, and was a matter for low-level diplomacy right up to late 1938. Was set up and guarranteed under the Treay of Versailles, but was always a "talking point" at least, if not arguing point lol Once everything else was done and dusted, and reunification with Eastern Prussia and Danzig was put on the table, the Corridor leapt to public attention in the West through 1939.

phylo

Helmut Von Moltke

Post by Helmut Von Moltke » Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:11 pm

intresting. Shame that Adolf was so impatient, refusing to negotiate properly, otherwise the highway to East Prussia would have happened, along with good diplomatic relations with Poland.

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Post by sid guttridge » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:58 am

Hi Pirx,

A very interesting piece of back history.

The single most striking thing is that it further confirms that Hitler was after war, not a peacable settlement with Poland. He therefore kept loading on new demands to avoid the Poles accepting a settlement short of what he really desired: Polish territory.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Danzig a good German city

Post by Opa » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:28 pm

Not really. Danzig was a German city by history and population. There was no way any German government could have put up with the its fake post-1919 (esp. as the city's population rejected it) raped "independence," just created to give Poland a stranglehold over the city through its control of customs. Several of my Reimer relatives lived in Danzig in the 1920s and 1930s-and in their recollections, BHOY!!!!!!!, did the Polish dictatorship strangle the city's economy.

So Hitler adding the city rejoining the German state meant nothing at all as far as war-mongering is concerned. Sid, find a better case.
Honny soit qui mal y pense!

Helmut Von Moltke

Post by Helmut Von Moltke » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:01 pm

So Hitler adding the city rejoining the German state meant nothing at all as far as war-mongering is concerned. Sid, find a better case.
On one hand I agree with you, demanding back Danzig as historical city through peaceful means, as Adolf did in the beggining, is not warmongering, but later on in the summer of 1939 he unwisely used a bit too much forces, resulting in warmongering. just my 2 cents.....

helmut

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Re: Danzig a good German city

Post by Pirx » Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:08 am

Opa wrote: BHOY!!!!!!!, did the Polish dictatorship strangle the city's economy.
Danzig wasn't in Poland 1918-1945, so it's not Polish fault that in Danzig couldn't hold with modern city and harbour Gdynia that was booming the same time :-).
Anyway no mattr who lived in Danzig/Gdansk. this city could rise only with Poland as a market. For example in 1605 Dutch and Germans closed gates in front of Swedish army, coz their bussines = Poland.
The same in 1455 citisiens let the Poles in to town, and they knew that they will be rich with export of Polish crops.

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Post by sid guttridge » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:36 am

Hi Opa,

Did I mention Danzig specifically?

But as you raise it..........

Yes, Danzig was overwhelmingly German - something about 95%. Furthermore it had been ruled by local Nazis since the early 1930s with even bigger majorities than Hitler had achieved in the Reich.

However, what hit Danzig economically between the wars was firstly the creation of Gdynia, which took away Danzig's monopoly of Polish seaborne exports, and secondly the depression, which caused the commercial collapse of the main employer in the city, the Schichau shipyard. (It was rscued by German and East Prussian government money before Hitler came to power). The Polish customs inspectors were a minor irritant by comparison.

On 28 September 1938 Hitler had ordered the creation of plans for the occupation of Danzig and Memel by the Kriegsmarine and WKI in East Prussia. On 23 March 1939 Memel was duly occupied. This just left the plan to occupy Danzig to be carried through. However, within a month Hitler had shelved it in favour of Fall Weiss - the full blooded invasion of Poland.

Hitler never demanded Danzig alone. It was always tied to some other infringement of Polish sovereignty. In mid August 1939 the Italian Foreign minister Ciano asked Ribbentrop what settlement Germany wanted. Ribbentrop replied that Germany didn't want a settlement. It wanted war.

Personally I would have no paricular problem conceding Danzig to Germany. It was clearly what the majority of its population wanted. However, the fact of the matter is that Danzig was never all that Hitler was after. He wanted Polish territory.

Cheers,

Sid.

Torquez

Post by Torquez » Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:58 am

Hitler proposed to give Memel to Poland in exchange for Gdańsk.
He was foolish enough to believe Poles would cede their land in order to joing Germany in a war against Soviet Union.

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Post by Pirx » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:48 am

Torquez. Hitler wasn't fool, he was clever.
Memel for Poland, and Danzig/Gdansk for Germany:
And what Poles say? no way, Memel is useless for us. Then Hitler: See? I try to solve problem and Poles said no again. Now their move what they propose?
Poles in 1939 had no other way than keep status quo, unfortunatelly Hitler had lot of possibilities when hi find out how poor was western allies power.

pzrmeyer2

Post by pzrmeyer2 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:05 am

He was foolish enough to believe Poles would cede their land in order to joing Germany in a war against Soviet Union.
Their land? Why is Danzig their land? Artificially created, separated from Germany, with an overwhelming German population.

Torquez

Post by Torquez » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:15 am

Their land? Why is Danzig their land? Artificially created, separated from Germany, with an overwhelming German population.
Founded by Poles, and Polish till 1793.
Just because German immigrants arrived in large numbers dominating the native Polish population doesn't make it German. Are you planning on giving some German towns to Turkey this days ?

pzrmeyer2

Post by pzrmeyer2 » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:42 pm

Just because German immigrants arrived in large numbers dominating the native Polish population doesn't make it German
no, and neither does the fact that Poles may have originally settled there and built a few huts there in 1100 make it Polish. I think the entire area of western Poland/Eastern Germany was a polyglot between the two, with Poles the majority in some areas and Germans in the other. However, I also place import on the growth of those towns in the Industrial period. Infrastructure, roads, built-up areas, universities, hospitals, commercial areas. All that took place during the period of German governmental control, that is, from the 1700s onward. Obviously, since 1945 the area was given to Poland as a spoil of war and the matter is currently settled.

Also, I think you overreach when you make claims near and especially west of the Oder/Neisse. Where does Poland end for you? the Elbe? the Rhine?

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