north africa tanks

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:18 pm

ok on how many occasions was there a order given by hitler to stand fast but they did not, a few, but i am know hearing stuff that counters the information over peaple gave me on this site, in one part i was told that 80% of the supplies and equiptment made it there and know you tell me that only 30% made it there, so can i find out the closest information possible, becouse know im just getting the wrong info which makes my ideas mean nothing, but personnaly i do believe that he could have done stuff about it, he could easily have got even a few barges, or help from the italian navy which would most likely help there fellow soilders

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:13 am

Italian Navy was knocked out in 1943. No way they could help. Only airplanes could take some stuff from Africa. But it wasn't possilble to get whole army back to Sicilly.

Michae1 · Post by **Michae1** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:15 am

I doubt whether the Italian navy was ever knocked out... most of their battleships were hiding in the habour and avoiding any battles... that is the reason why the supply line by sea was attacked so easily... I think I've read that the Italian navy actually stored a lot of oil which was found by the Germans when they occupied Italy...

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:10 pm

Matapan, Spartivento, Spada, Tarigo, Taranto raid, First and Second Sirte battle, battle of Punta Stilo...
Regia Marina were not hiding in harbours whole war. They just couldn't won with Royal Navy and Royal Australian Navy.

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:01 pm

ok if the italian navy could not pull out an army from NA then how did that army get there?

not all by air

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:25 pm

von_noobie wrote:ok if the italian navy could not pull out an army from NA then how did that army get there?

not all by air

How about getting some books from serious authors instead of building fantasy stories out of nearly zero knowledge. Or better... go on playing computer games there you can make it "better" than Hitler

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:28 am

all i did was ask a simple question, so why did you answer me like i dont know anything and am the stupidest person on this site, yes sure i play games but yet that was what interested me in ww2, but if you want to be accurate there is few games that actually allow you to be the germans, all it is is your either the russians, british or americans, and they always win,

so dont give me an answer like that please,

so i ask again

ok if the italian navy could not pull out an army from NA then how did that army get there?

not all by air

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:44 am

Operation Torch started 8th november 1942, 2nd battle Al-Alamein ended 9th november 1942. Axis forces were delivered from mid of november 1942 to mid of january 1943. In january 1943 allies has secured Marocco and Algieria, and 8th Army secured Libia to the end of february. From March allied fleet and air forces achieved superiority in this area (in Africa was not too many airfields with concrete runways, but Americans built them quickly). 9th March von Arnim replaced Rommel, and almost the same time navy cut off water ways to north Africa for axis.

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:45 am

I suggest von-noobie to read "A soldiers story" by Omar Bradley. Very good book about African front.

von_noobie · Post by **von_noobie** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:41 am

thank you Pirx

verey big help, know that wasnt so hard.

cpa95 · Post by **cpa95** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:51 am

Pirx wrote:
Epaminondas wrote:
Rommel was an idiot on the operational level of war. Excellent tactical commander, but had no concept of logistics.

I don't agree with this. Rommel knew about all that troubles, and his withdraw from Egipt to Tunisia shows us how good general hi was. Rommel often was asking Hitler for supplies, or withdraw axis forces from Africa. Finally he was repleced by von Armin, and Hitler never again let Rommel to be independent commander.

Sorry Pirx, thats wrong.

Rommel was OB of the "Panzergruppe West", later "5. Panzerarmee" during the first weeks of the battle of normandy.

Then: The German High Command (OKW and Hitler) never realized the importance of the war in the Mediterranean Sea/North Africa (also the OKH pronounced it as a possibility to bring the war against GB to an end). May be, the reason was a total focussing on the Eastern Campaign since September 1940. In 1941+1942, NA was a "Nebenkriegsschauplatz" - an aera to keep GB busy.

Greetings
Thomas

another good book for the NA-war: Playfair, The Mediterranean and the Middle East, Six Volumes

David W · Post by **David W** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:58 pm

another good book for the NA-war: Playfair, The Mediterranean and the Middle East, Six Volumes

Tell me about it! I've been trying to get hold of this series for absolutely years. (And years, and years!)

Pirx · Post by **Pirx** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:25 am

cpa95 wrote:
Rommel was OB of the "Panzergruppe West", later "5. Panzerarmee" during the first weeks of the battle of normandy.

Yes but in Africa he could do what he want (in fact Hitler was his only supervisor). In France his orders must accept von Rundstetd, and Hitler never again let him be "independent" like in Africa.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:48 am

cpa95 wrote: Rommel was OB of the "Panzergruppe West", later "5. Panzerarmee" during the first weeks of the battle of normandy.

Sorry, but no, Panzergruppe West was renamed 5. Panzerarmee, but Rommel was never OB of either, that was Geyr von Schweppenburg. Rommel was OB of Heeresgruppe B.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:50 am

Pirx wrote: Yes but in Africa he could do what he want (in fact Hitler was his only supervisor). In France his orders must accept von Rundstetd, and Hitler never again let him be "independent" like in Africa.

Again, no, Rommel was subordinate to Commando Supremo and Ob. Sued, he had the "ear" of Hitler, but Hitler wasn't his only "supervisor".