Regarding the Waffen SS.

Muumin · Post by **Muumin** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:28 am

I think you do a good job in summarising the Waffen SS. However one overlooked fact is that the Waffen SS became the largest "multi-national" volunteer army in history. I believe that the numbers fighting in the Waffen SS far exceed those that choose to fight in the International Brigade.

I do not have exact figures for this but I have read it in a number of sources. Many of which deal with the Finnish `winter war and Försättningskrig. (Continuity war- doesnt sound correct?) and The Swedish who fought for Hitler (majority in the Waffen SS).

I think it is sad that many of the SS veterans in my country are forced to hide there past as they are branded murderers by a society that ignores the facts and prefers to listen to media hyenas. They fought against an empire that was just as insidious as NSDAP Germany.

Obviously the British Commonwealth forces included many non-Brits as did the French Foriegn legion.

Benoit Douville · Post by **Benoit Douville** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:15 am

I totally agree with you. It is indeed very sad that the Waffen-SS veterans have to hide their past just because they were part of the Waffen-SS. You are also right when you say that they fought against the brutal Stalinist regime wo was just insidious as Nazi Germany. The Waffen-SS had volunteer from almost every country in Europe!

Regards

PaulJ · Post by **PaulJ** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:32 pm

Quite so -- it is so sad that people forget what sort of organization the Waffen-SS really was. Of course the nature of the Stalinist Soviet Union completely exonerates all veterans of the Waffen-SS. Why, anyone who volunteered to join an organization like the Waffen-SS should be heralded as a hero!

2nd SS Panzer Das Reich · Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:26 pm

This is a very sad thing indeed... Who gave them these people the right to lable the Waffen SS as baby killers? These people don't understand what a hero is. In my eye's a hero is a brave person who is willing to fight and die for what he believes in.

Timo · Post by **Timo** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:34 am

2nd SS Panzer Das Reich wrote: In my eye's a hero is a brave person who is willing to fight and die for what he believes in.

...wow, terrorists fight and die for what they believe in. Do you support terrorism?

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:02 am

Hi Muumin,

On balance, I think that Swedish SS volunteers should keep a low profile. Assuming that Nazi Germany and the USSR were equally bad, it would seem that if they were to fight at all it didn't matter much which side they chose.

However, given that their country was neutral, it is much in question whether they should have fought at all. Did they not betray their own country, which had set its own course independent of both the Nazis and Stalinists?

Cheers,

Sid.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi 2SSDR,

Who has labelled the Waffen-SS as "baby-killers"?

There are clear individual incidents in which babies were killed as a direct result of the actions of Waffen-SS men, but where has the whole organisation been labelled "baby-killers"? Published sources please.

Cheers,

Sid.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi PaulJ,

Yup, it is "so sad that people forget what sort of organisation the Waffen-SS really was".

It was, of course, criminal. And you are right - none of us should forget it.

Cheers,

Sid.

B Hellqvist · Post by **B Hellqvist** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:51 pm

sid guttridge wrote:Hi Muumin,

On balance, I think that Swedish SS volunteers should keep a low profile. Assuming that Nazi Germany and the USSR were equally bad, it would seem that if they were to fight at all it didn't matter much which side they chose.

In order to understand why some Swedes volunteered for the Waffen-SS, one must understand the age-old hatred/fear of the Russians felt by many Swedes back then (still around when I did my military service - we trained to fight a Soviet invader). Less than 250 Swedes joined the W-SS, many of them members of the miniscule Nazi parties in Sweden, others because the wanted to fight Bolshevism, and some because they had volunteered to help Finland during the Winter War, and wanted to continue fighting the Russkies. There were even a few Swedes fighting for the Soviets as well.

However, given that their country was neutral, it is much in question whether they should have fought at all. Did they not betray their own country, which had set its own course independent of both the Nazis and Stalinists?

It wasn't encouraged, but it wasn't a crime, either. Some 8000 Swedes served on the Allied side, mostly as sailors in the US Merchant Marine, but one even as an OSS agent.

2nd SS Panzer Das Reich · Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:05 pm

A Polish guy who was a Green Beret in Vietnam called them "baby killers".

2nd SS Panzer Das Reich · Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:12 pm

[/quote]...wow, terrorists fight and die for what they believe in. Do you support terrorism?[/quote]

No I do not support terrorism I hate the guts of the people who attacked my country on 9/11. Although It's not about if I love or hate them. I have repeact for them. And im a American I am the last one to support terrorism. It's like the Kamikaze I don't like the ploits but I repeact them.

sniper1shot · Post by **sniper1shot** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 5:46 pm

**sigh** and here we go again.

PaulJ · Post by **PaulJ** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:23 pm

Actually, despite his somewhat shaky spelling and grammar, dear 2nd SS Panzer Das Reich's point is quite clear.

He simply admires power, and powerful feats of arms. Pure and simple.

Not a terribly sophisticated political philosophy, and not one that I (for one) would admire, but it is straight forward enough. (And the sort of viewpoint one might expect from someone who chooses a moniker like "2nd SS Panzer Das Reich.")

fknorr · Post by **fknorr** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:01 pm

Timo wrote:
2nd SS Panzer Das Reich wrote: In my eye's a hero is a brave person who is willing to fight and die for what he believes in.
...wow, terrorists fight and die for what they believe in. Do you support terrorism?

Just because your cause is not righteous does not mean you are not brave.

Robert E Lee was brave.
Nathan Bedford Forrest was brave.
Oscar Dirlewanger was brave.
Pieper, Meyer, Witt, Tychsen were all brave.

Their causes, however misguided do not diminish their bravery...

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:55 am

Hi fknorr,

True. But their adherence to unrighteous causes does diminish their standing as well rounded, fully admirable human beings.

Cheers,

Sid.

fknorr · Post by **fknorr** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:21 am

sid guttridge wrote:Hi fknorr,

True. But their adherence to unrighteous causes does diminish their standing as well rounded, fully admirable human beings.

Cheers,

Sid.

You like to argue do you not?

Were we discussing "well rounded and admirable"?

I said they were brave.
you agreed.
cased closed.

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:29 am

Hi fknorr,

Have you suddenly been appointed a Moderator that you can dictate what is on a thread?

Nope.

So there is no obstacle to mentioning that, for all their bravery, many physically courageous men are moral cowards and rather less than "well rounded and admirable".

Cheers,

Sid.