Here's another pat on Richard's back, I completely agree we shouldn't be sending them money. All the good intentioned efforts to raise money for starving Ethiopians during the drought in the late 1980's (concerts, ad campaigns, etc.) did raise a huge amount, which was dutifully turned over to the Ethiopian government in both currency and foodstuffs. All the money was diverted from humanitarian aims and in turn was used to purchase large amounts of war materiel, while the foodstuffs went directly to feed the armies in the nasty war that led to the breakaway of Eritrea. Sending monies into these nations does no good, the people in power see them as resources to be exploited for their own gains and to hell with the starving millions. And after serving in that debacle of Operation Restore hope and seeing the horrors these people face, I know something has to be done to lift these people out of the morass they suffer in.
A possible working solution (only possible as I lack the PhDs necessary to make this a fully thought out plan) is to start off with an example nation or two. Take a country such as Liberia, reorganize and refit the infrastructure while raising the standards of education, and show the other nations of Africa what is possible. The only downfall I can see to this sort of effort is a civil war situation that's based on the control of a country's natural resources (ala diamond mines).
Should the continent of Africa be re-occupied by the West?
Moderator: Commissar D, the Evil
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Commissar D, the Evil
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Ye Gods!
Ye Gods, Jez actually knows the names (sort of) of two African countries!!
1. South Africa
2. Rhodesia (actually it's Zimbabwe, but what the heck, I'll give him credit anyway, I'm generous like that!)
Regards, D (still EviL)
1. South Africa
2. Rhodesia (actually it's Zimbabwe, but what the heck, I'll give him credit anyway, I'm generous like that!)
Regards, D (still EviL)
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
As you try to belittle me you just make a bigger arse of yourself mate.
South africa.... whats that? Is it a country or the south area of the African continent?
Do you mean the Republic of South Africa maybe?
Smith's Uniterlateral Declaration of Independence on the 11th Nov 1965 from the dis-honourable treachery of Westminster, Rhodesia is to this day, an example of gallantry and heroism in the strongest possible meanings of these words!
The colony that Rhodes founded, Rhodesians built and made into a prosperous economically self- sufficiant nation, was then and always will be Rhodesia.
Jez.
South africa.... whats that? Is it a country or the south area of the African continent?
Do you mean the Republic of South Africa maybe?
Smith's Uniterlateral Declaration of Independence on the 11th Nov 1965 from the dis-honourable treachery of Westminster, Rhodesia is to this day, an example of gallantry and heroism in the strongest possible meanings of these words!
The colony that Rhodes founded, Rhodesians built and made into a prosperous economically self- sufficiant nation, was then and always will be Rhodesia.
Jez.
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Commissar D, the Evil
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Hmm!
Well, Jez, now I'm hurt. I give you credit for some knowledge of the continent you wanted to discuss and you turn on me!
Trust me, I was...elated that you could actually name a country in Africa.
I was also trying to figure out why these two stuck in your mind. Let's see:
Decades of racial oppression and human rights violations? Naw, I don't think so.
Maybe because both were the scenes of years of armed struggle against racist oppressors? Probably not.
Oh wait! I got it! They both have White People in them!! Yes, that has to be it! Oh joy! And here I was worried you might have gone soft for the
"natives".
By the way:
"Smith's Uniterlateral Declaration of Independence on the 11th Nov 1965 from the dis-honourable treachery of Westminster, Rhodesia is to this day, an example of gallantry and heroism in the strongest possible meanings of these words!"
Heh Heh! Get over it Jez, they LOST! Yup! There is no longer a Rhodesia.
It's gone the way of hoop skirts, top hats and Tarzan movies.
But I promise you, on whatever subject you turn to next, I won't make the mistake of thinking you might actually have some knowledge of it.
Cheers, D (still EviL)
Trust me, I was...elated that you could actually name a country in Africa.
I was also trying to figure out why these two stuck in your mind. Let's see:
Decades of racial oppression and human rights violations? Naw, I don't think so.
Maybe because both were the scenes of years of armed struggle against racist oppressors? Probably not.
Oh wait! I got it! They both have White People in them!! Yes, that has to be it! Oh joy! And here I was worried you might have gone soft for the
"natives".
By the way:
"Smith's Uniterlateral Declaration of Independence on the 11th Nov 1965 from the dis-honourable treachery of Westminster, Rhodesia is to this day, an example of gallantry and heroism in the strongest possible meanings of these words!"
Heh Heh! Get over it Jez, they LOST! Yup! There is no longer a Rhodesia.
It's gone the way of hoop skirts, top hats and Tarzan movies.
But I promise you, on whatever subject you turn to next, I won't make the mistake of thinking you might actually have some knowledge of it.
Cheers, D (still EviL)
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
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Commissar D, the Evil
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Ahhh!
Oh I am getting so slow on the uptake. Tell the truth Jez, when you were talking about the re-occupation of Africa by Europeans, you were talking about South Africa and Zimbabwe, right?
I don't see how I missed that. England wants her former colonies back!
D, (always EviL)
I don't see how I missed that. England wants her former colonies back!
D, (always EviL)
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
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Piet Duits
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No, do not send Europeans!
I have an even better idea!
If there's something that I am getting sick and tired of, then it is the so-called Political Correctness BS.
Yes, the White Man has done -and is still doing- terrible things to the world, but does that mean they can't try to improve living for the current people living in, let's say: Africa?
Or wait! Could it be possible that black people from the US and Europe can do better for the country/continent they came from originally?
So Commissar D: perhaps you as an African American (which I think is incorrect, as the true inhabitats from the US are not African Americans or Europeans, but the Indians - errr correct me: Native Americans) can do better.
Or not: isn't it so that the African country Liberia was found by former African slaves? They must have brought their idea's from the great US of A with them, isn't it? So at least there should be 1 "democratic" country in Western Africa. Or isn't that so either?
Before being called a racist -which I may be at times, especially when I see the violance and criminal activities done by certain originally foreign groups in my own country- let me express myself to say: I have a great respect for what the black community did in the US to become free. I have nothing against other religions, other ways of living or other ways of interpretations of life. I do not say that I am not a racist, because in my opinion everybody is a racist in a way.
Being part of a minority myself (can you make a joke about african americans, or native americans in the US without being charged? Can you make jokes about the socalled Trailer Trash? Yes you can. I have a new name for those people. Mobile Home Americans. Try to mess with that!) I have learned to live with racism, and still I discriminate myself too.
(I think I must have earned at least a Focke Wulf by now)
If there's something that I am getting sick and tired of, then it is the so-called Political Correctness BS.
Yes, the White Man has done -and is still doing- terrible things to the world, but does that mean they can't try to improve living for the current people living in, let's say: Africa?
Or wait! Could it be possible that black people from the US and Europe can do better for the country/continent they came from originally?
So Commissar D: perhaps you as an African American (which I think is incorrect, as the true inhabitats from the US are not African Americans or Europeans, but the Indians - errr correct me: Native Americans) can do better.
Or not: isn't it so that the African country Liberia was found by former African slaves? They must have brought their idea's from the great US of A with them, isn't it? So at least there should be 1 "democratic" country in Western Africa. Or isn't that so either?
Before being called a racist -which I may be at times, especially when I see the violance and criminal activities done by certain originally foreign groups in my own country- let me express myself to say: I have a great respect for what the black community did in the US to become free. I have nothing against other religions, other ways of living or other ways of interpretations of life. I do not say that I am not a racist, because in my opinion everybody is a racist in a way.
Being part of a minority myself (can you make a joke about african americans, or native americans in the US without being charged? Can you make jokes about the socalled Trailer Trash? Yes you can. I have a new name for those people. Mobile Home Americans. Try to mess with that!) I have learned to live with racism, and still I discriminate myself too.
(I think I must have earned at least a Focke Wulf by now)
africa
Everyone has to get his own experience. Europe knows it, islamic countries sooner or later will learn and sometimes africa will join us. There is no sense in forcing them. I do not like political correctness either but that is not the question.
Fool.
What exactly is your suggestion on how we could sort out the African dilema?
Racist oppressors?!
Why when these places were being 'oppressed' by racists, did hundred upon hundreds of thousands of migrant workers flock to these places from other so called 'independant' African countries every year and
did Black Africans then have a higher standard of living in the 'oppresive' regimes than anywhere else in the continent?
Three men i'm proud to call friends of mine are from Rhodesia.
One who left in 85. He found it a problem when, whilst walking to work he had to step over bodies of Black africans, day after day, that Mugabe had killed. Their crime was being in the wrong ethnic tribe that Mugabe came from.
One left a bit later. He worked for the pestelence control in the 70's. He showed me some photos. Yes commisar, he seemed to be oppressing the living sh!t out of the truck load of black colleagues that accompanied him into the bush, what with them all armed with rifles, all except my friend who was the only white guy with them. He would be weeks alone with heavily armed Black collegues. How if he was racially oppressing these guys so much that they didnt just shoot him? Hmm.. strange.
The last left in 1990. He found it best as the Mugabe regime was persecuting anyone with a white face.
Any way, when did i ever say "re-occupy Africa with Europeans"?
I didnt did i?
Something has to be done!
Not to re-apply white domination on this continent, but to save the people who live there (whether Black white or Asian) and equally as important to save to natural environment/resources of this place before its too late!
Jez.
Racist oppressors?!
Why when these places were being 'oppressed' by racists, did hundred upon hundreds of thousands of migrant workers flock to these places from other so called 'independant' African countries every year and
did Black Africans then have a higher standard of living in the 'oppresive' regimes than anywhere else in the continent?
Three men i'm proud to call friends of mine are from Rhodesia.
One who left in 85. He found it a problem when, whilst walking to work he had to step over bodies of Black africans, day after day, that Mugabe had killed. Their crime was being in the wrong ethnic tribe that Mugabe came from.
One left a bit later. He worked for the pestelence control in the 70's. He showed me some photos. Yes commisar, he seemed to be oppressing the living sh!t out of the truck load of black colleagues that accompanied him into the bush, what with them all armed with rifles, all except my friend who was the only white guy with them. He would be weeks alone with heavily armed Black collegues. How if he was racially oppressing these guys so much that they didnt just shoot him? Hmm.. strange.
The last left in 1990. He found it best as the Mugabe regime was persecuting anyone with a white face.
Any way, when did i ever say "re-occupy Africa with Europeans"?
I didnt did i?
Something has to be done!
Not to re-apply white domination on this continent, but to save the people who live there (whether Black white or Asian) and equally as important to save to natural environment/resources of this place before its too late!
Jez.
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Commissar D, the Evil
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Jez, you're so full of it.
I recall that months ago you had a bitter fight on Soldateneheim defending your position that Indians who had immigrated to England were somehow spoiling that country's tenuous hold on "civilization".
Knowing that position I was franky amazed that you, of all people, would express the least bit of concern about any sufferring in Africa or wish to establish any sort of contact with its inhabitants.
As evinced by the title of your thread "Should the continent of Africa be re-occupied by the West", your initial proposition would have some sort of military action imposed upon African Nations by the "West". It now turns out that you "have friends" who are White, ex-Rhodesians (well, actually they're English now!) Somehow this doesn't surprise me.
So spare me the atrocity stories, I can match each one with another from the brief and inglorious history of the nation that never was and never should have been: Rhodesia. Rhodesia was no more than a blink in the eye of history caused by an excessive and, as usual, European blood-lust. Anyone who calls themselves "ex-Rhodesian" is simply admitting that they are guilty of crimes against humanity and should be hung, stoned, drawn and quartered. (Or whatever the quaint punishment for treason is in England).
The bottom line of this thread is that you care not a whit for Africa or Africans, just White people trapped in the bush by their own greed and who are finally reaping exactly what they sowed.
Cheers, D (forever Evil)
I recall that months ago you had a bitter fight on Soldateneheim defending your position that Indians who had immigrated to England were somehow spoiling that country's tenuous hold on "civilization".
Knowing that position I was franky amazed that you, of all people, would express the least bit of concern about any sufferring in Africa or wish to establish any sort of contact with its inhabitants.
As evinced by the title of your thread "Should the continent of Africa be re-occupied by the West", your initial proposition would have some sort of military action imposed upon African Nations by the "West". It now turns out that you "have friends" who are White, ex-Rhodesians (well, actually they're English now!) Somehow this doesn't surprise me.
So spare me the atrocity stories, I can match each one with another from the brief and inglorious history of the nation that never was and never should have been: Rhodesia. Rhodesia was no more than a blink in the eye of history caused by an excessive and, as usual, European blood-lust. Anyone who calls themselves "ex-Rhodesian" is simply admitting that they are guilty of crimes against humanity and should be hung, stoned, drawn and quartered. (Or whatever the quaint punishment for treason is in England).
The bottom line of this thread is that you care not a whit for Africa or Africans, just White people trapped in the bush by their own greed and who are finally reaping exactly what they sowed.
Cheers, D (forever Evil)
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
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Commissar D, the Evil
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Hey Piet!
Hey Piet, off-topic for a moment, but aside from Timo, I still haven't seen any sign of intelligent life in the Netherlands. Nice name for a country too by the way...why didn't you guys just go all out and call it "Hell"?
And no, you don't win the Focke-Wulf this time.
Cheers, D (Friendly, but still EviL)
And no, you don't win the Focke-Wulf this time.
Cheers, D (Friendly, but still EviL)
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
Calm yourself man.
Your entitled to your opinion about the gallant Rhodesian's.
I really do find it offensive but i'm sure i've may have offended people with things that are my opinion.
I was concerned about third world immigration to Britain because the Government here are slowly in my mind diluting down our society to pander to the new cultures being imposed on our land.
300,000 a year, I dont care what you say Com that is serious numbers and needs to be addressed.
The African story is completley different mate.
Whenever challenged you seem to generalise bits and bats. You make loads of noise but not quite pulling off any factual statements.
Yet again.... the African nations on the whole are completly dependant on Western handouts. They are mostly corrupt regimes, they are squandering their natural resources for a quick buck and the normal African is in a very bad state of well being.
I have no hidden agenda here. You'll find that two of the lads who are my Rhodesians friends here support the MDC.
Now i know you may think i'm talking crap, but this is the truth. You have been consistantly wrong in every reply to my posts so far.
nice one.
Jez.
I really do find it offensive but i'm sure i've may have offended people with things that are my opinion.
I was concerned about third world immigration to Britain because the Government here are slowly in my mind diluting down our society to pander to the new cultures being imposed on our land.
300,000 a year, I dont care what you say Com that is serious numbers and needs to be addressed.
The African story is completley different mate.
Whenever challenged you seem to generalise bits and bats. You make loads of noise but not quite pulling off any factual statements.
Yet again.... the African nations on the whole are completly dependant on Western handouts. They are mostly corrupt regimes, they are squandering their natural resources for a quick buck and the normal African is in a very bad state of well being.
I have no hidden agenda here. You'll find that two of the lads who are my Rhodesians friends here support the MDC.
Now i know you may think i'm talking crap, but this is the truth. You have been consistantly wrong in every reply to my posts so far.
nice one.
Jez.
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charlie don't surf
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Who did you say were making generalisations?Yet again.... the African nations on the whole are completly dependant on Western handouts. They are mostly corrupt regimes, they are squandering their natural resources for a quick buck and the normal African is in a very bad state of well being.
regards
soz mate...
Havent got the time to individually log every case.
Still, nowhere near as bad as the Commisar's.
Regards, Jez.
Still, nowhere near as bad as the Commisar's.
Regards, Jez.
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Commissar D, the Evil
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Cheeeee
Oh come on Jez, there is no way in God's green Earth that I will ever buy into the "I just cares so much about the poor Africans" nonsense. What is this, the new world-friendly, muti-cultural PC version of Jez?
Puh-lease! At least I don't hide behind pieties when I vent my anti-social tendencies.
Before you make blanket statements about Africa or blather on about the noble, land-stealing, machine-gun shooting, village-burning, refugee-killing "Rhodesians", you really should have an unbiased look at the establishment of the colony and the indignities inflicted upon the people of that land BEFORE the war.
After that we can talk about your "Rhodesians"' establishment of the anarchic rebel force that plagued Mozambique for years after Zimbabwe was free.
And maybe we'll have some time to explore why Ian Smith's rump republic fought so hard to preserve the thousand acre white farms
while the original inhabitants--all farmers--were forced to eeke out an existence working on those farms and prevented from owning their own land.
As for the immigration issue, I'm struck how little it seems to bother you
that the White immigrants to Zimbabwe, and that is all they are, maintain their vampire's hold on the arable land. Why don't you just give them part of Sussex and call it a day? Just move the people off and put the "Rhodesian" farmers there. Let the good people of Sussex work in the fields as hired labor or as maids for your noble "Rhodesians". Then maybe you'll see how the Africans feel.
Cheers,
D, (Maybe not so EviL after all)
Puh-lease! At least I don't hide behind pieties when I vent my anti-social tendencies.
Before you make blanket statements about Africa or blather on about the noble, land-stealing, machine-gun shooting, village-burning, refugee-killing "Rhodesians", you really should have an unbiased look at the establishment of the colony and the indignities inflicted upon the people of that land BEFORE the war.
After that we can talk about your "Rhodesians"' establishment of the anarchic rebel force that plagued Mozambique for years after Zimbabwe was free.
And maybe we'll have some time to explore why Ian Smith's rump republic fought so hard to preserve the thousand acre white farms
while the original inhabitants--all farmers--were forced to eeke out an existence working on those farms and prevented from owning their own land.
As for the immigration issue, I'm struck how little it seems to bother you
that the White immigrants to Zimbabwe, and that is all they are, maintain their vampire's hold on the arable land. Why don't you just give them part of Sussex and call it a day? Just move the people off and put the "Rhodesian" farmers there. Let the good people of Sussex work in the fields as hired labor or as maids for your noble "Rhodesians". Then maybe you'll see how the Africans feel.
Cheers,
D, (Maybe not so EviL after all)
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....
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Commissar D, the Evil
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hey, I Like It..
The more I think about it the more I like it. A partial solution to the Zimbabwe concerns of my English friends. Bring all the white farmers to Sussex and duplicate their properties there!
Think of it Jez, White, English-speaking, cricket-playing, "God Save the Queen"--type immigrants. No more Indians, just "Rhodesians". Hey, they may even loose their accents!
So the original inhabitants of Sussex, the "natives" as it were, just get carted away from these thousand square acre farms. Unless they're willing to work. A built in labor market, all the stable-boys, milk-maids,
crop-pickers, wood-choppers a "Rhodesian" could ever want. And no cultural differences--well, there might be that rich/poor thing, but Mother England and Western Civilization can handle it. Not like the primitives eh, what!
We'll call this new cradle of civilization "Sussdesia"!
How's that for a "civilized" solution?
Cheers, D (still EviL)
Think of it Jez, White, English-speaking, cricket-playing, "God Save the Queen"--type immigrants. No more Indians, just "Rhodesians". Hey, they may even loose their accents!
So the original inhabitants of Sussex, the "natives" as it were, just get carted away from these thousand square acre farms. Unless they're willing to work. A built in labor market, all the stable-boys, milk-maids,
crop-pickers, wood-choppers a "Rhodesian" could ever want. And no cultural differences--well, there might be that rich/poor thing, but Mother England and Western Civilization can handle it. Not like the primitives eh, what!
We'll call this new cradle of civilization "Sussdesia"!
How's that for a "civilized" solution?
Cheers, D (still EviL)
Death is lighter than a Feather, Duty is heavier than a Mountain....