QED. What could have been a decent rewrite turned into an ill-disciplined mental masturbation exercise, all over the buyers. I'm glad I didn't buy it because I would be demanding a refund.
PK
Joachim Peiper by Jens Westemeier
Moderator: sniper1shot
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John P. Moore
- Author & Moderator
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- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 10:40 pm
- Location: Portland, Oregon & France
Pk - I believe that you would have found this book to be worthwhile reading, knowing your interest in detailed information about the W-SS. Despite the shortcomings that I described earlier, this book does contain a wealth of new information that serious researchers should consider, even if they don't agree with the author's conclusions.
John
John
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Paddy Keating
Fair enough, John. If that's the case, I'll add it to my library and read those parts with interest. And I will think well of Westemeier for it. Maybe he can one day produce a third edition which finds a middle road between the two extremes. He's not the first writer to have gotten a bit lost in the dark tunnel.
Rgds,
P
Rgds,
P
I´ve heard this BUT, according to couple of authors they have been given the chance to proofread their text after it has been typeset. Before someone screams for "professional editors paid by the publisher" let me tell you a true story. Not too long ago a very knowledgeable author´s third book was about to be published by the SAE, Society of Automotive Engineers. This is a highly professional and authoritative group. However, this book was assigned a professional (i.e. pro as far as publishing goes) editor. This whore of an editor (yes, she) raped the manuscript so badly (e.g. changing the Martin Mauler to the Martin Mercator) that the author simply left this publisher and found quickly another publisher who didn´t pretend to know more about the subject than the author.michael kenny wrote:Schiffer are known to be very bad in the proof reading department -if they even have one. Their books are notorious for the grammar, spelling and syntax errors. One of the worst examples would be Gary Simpson's book on Wittmann. It is 75% invention, 25% fact and 100% unreadable.
http://www.amazon.com/Tiger-Panzer-Comm ... 0887405266
read the reviews to see just how bad it is.
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Paddy Keating
I know two authors who had no such problems with Schiffer and they're both quite "academic" people who would have turned in pretty clean copy to begin with and would not have been too shy to yell about any "revisions" by menstrual or menopausal bunny-boiler "editors".
Sometimes things slip through nets, especially if a publisher is busy. I doubt if Schiffer employs any proof readers or editors on a full time basis. Like other such outfits, they probably reply upon freelance editors. If one's regular freelance editors are busy and one is forced to go with someone new for a given manuscript, there is always a risk that the untried editor is useless.
Many people, including publishers, kid themselves that anyone with a computer can be an editor. A lot of people with computers kid themselves that they are writers. Anyone with a copy of InDesign and Photoshop and a three-day course is an art director! Pack all that into an equation and you have a strong potential for embarrassment.
Desktop computor technology has indeed "democratised" publishing by opening it up but the problem is that it has been opened up to the talentless, the illiterate, the myopic, the colourblind and the pig-ignorant. Good editors are quite rare. Publishers need good editors to refine the majority of writers' output. A good editor with a deft touch can make all the difference between a bad or mediocre book and a good one.
But when a publisher is too parsimonious - or greedy - to pay for the services of a good editor, and relies purely upon a writer to turn in a good final draft, that can lead to problems. It is even more pronounced in cases where the publishing house is really not much more than a vanity publishing operation, like so many of these specialist military outfits.
PK
Sometimes things slip through nets, especially if a publisher is busy. I doubt if Schiffer employs any proof readers or editors on a full time basis. Like other such outfits, they probably reply upon freelance editors. If one's regular freelance editors are busy and one is forced to go with someone new for a given manuscript, there is always a risk that the untried editor is useless.
Many people, including publishers, kid themselves that anyone with a computer can be an editor. A lot of people with computers kid themselves that they are writers. Anyone with a copy of InDesign and Photoshop and a three-day course is an art director! Pack all that into an equation and you have a strong potential for embarrassment.
Desktop computor technology has indeed "democratised" publishing by opening it up but the problem is that it has been opened up to the talentless, the illiterate, the myopic, the colourblind and the pig-ignorant. Good editors are quite rare. Publishers need good editors to refine the majority of writers' output. A good editor with a deft touch can make all the difference between a bad or mediocre book and a good one.
But when a publisher is too parsimonious - or greedy - to pay for the services of a good editor, and relies purely upon a writer to turn in a good final draft, that can lead to problems. It is even more pronounced in cases where the publishing house is really not much more than a vanity publishing operation, like so many of these specialist military outfits.
PK
Paddy, please explain the word vanity as I don´t know how does this apply to the field of publishing? If Schiffer is a "vanity publisher", spell out who do you consider a "professional publisher"? SAE?
And as far as page design goes, that isn´t too difficult except that these days things seem to ge worse. E.g. the Gramophone magazine now looks like a juvenile girls´ mag though the majority of readers are 50+ year old! Any designer that deviates from the use of fully justified columns should be mercilessly skinned alive and bathed in salt.
And as far as page design goes, that isn´t too difficult except that these days things seem to ge worse. E.g. the Gramophone magazine now looks like a juvenile girls´ mag though the majority of readers are 50+ year old! Any designer that deviates from the use of fully justified columns should be mercilessly skinned alive and bathed in salt.
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Paddy Keating
I didn't say that Schiffer was a vanity publishing firm. Schiffer pay writers royalties, for a start. As for defining "professional publisher", I tend to look at prose quality, captions, image presentation and layout and so on. Of course, I am a bit old-fashioned!Uncle Joe wrote:Paddy, please explain the word vanity as I don´t know how does this apply to the field of publishing? If Schiffer is a "vanity publisher", spell out who do you consider a "professional publisher"? SAE?
I am one of those dinosaurs who believes in the Queen's English - or Bostonian English if really necessary - captions that relate to images and are well-written by qualified writers, overall presentational integrity and good, basic layout. Yes, well, don't get me started on the majority of magazine "art directors". I can only think of three or perhaps four who are any good. The rest should have their hands chopped off with blunt axes and their eyes put out with redhot kebab skewers for all the good material they have ruined with their pretentious, anally-retentive notions of "design". It is even worse in the book business. I have seen so many books messed up by keyboard-jabbing little egomaniacs who think their "page design" is more important than the content of the book.And as far as page design goes, that isn´t too difficult except that these days things seem to ge worse. E.g. the Gramophone magazine now looks like a juvenile girls´ mag though the majority of readers are 50+ year old! Any designer that deviates from the use of fully justified columns should be mercilessly skinned alive and bathed in salt.
PK
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Troy Tempest
- Enthusiast
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- Location: Port Macquarie, NSW, Australia
This is apparently the last word from Danny Parker about this until his own book is released!
Troy,
Sorry to disappoint. I am just too busy writing and getting ready for this upcoming research trip to respond to everyone. Please let those interested know that they can read the first chapter on my website. Might as well see what my perspective is like. Also, you might let others know that my opinion on Jen's work is very simple and beyond being a highly respected friend:
You may disagree with some of his opinions and judgement, but his research is superb. He gets much more right than anyone else so far. Don't condemn those who show something at odds with what you've believed before--particularly when their research may have taken them that direction. At least check it yourself before you dismiss it...
Consider this: any accurate description of Peiper's life is likely to dismay everyone involved. What a predicament for an author...
I am condemned to that arena too.
Regards,
Danny Parker
Hello from sunny Port Macquarie
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Paddy Keating
It is interesting that Danny Parker feels that an accurate description of Peiper would "dismay" people. Interesting choice of words. It must be clear to anyone with any degree of perception that Jochen Peiper was never quite the flawless and godlike figure of some people's imagination. Like anyone else, Peiper was shaped and influenced by his environment.
For me, any feelings of dismay or discomfort when looking at Peiper come not from any sense of disappointment that "an idol" has been stripped bare but from being reminded of all the soldiers I have known who had a moment of glory followed by a pretty miserable life. For every old war hero pottering about in his rose garden with his wife making honey in the background, there are others living in their own private hell. That is my impression of Peiper. I don't need to read about it. It can be seen in photographs from the 1960s and 1970s. It's etched in his face.
To write books about a man like Peiper as a reaction against his perceived lionisation by alleged neo-Nazis, apologists and revisionists is the right of any author in a free society. However, it is not perhaps the best of motives. Rather than editorialising, why not simply allow the bald facts to speak for themselves? A dispassionate account of the life of Jochen Peiper would serve as a salutory warning in all sorts of ways. You don't have to spell these warnings out. The facts of his life and the manner of its ending suffice.
Yes, people ought to be dismayed by the story of Jochen Peiper but not perhaps in quite the way nor for quite the reasons Messrs Westemeier and Parker appear to presume.
PK
For me, any feelings of dismay or discomfort when looking at Peiper come not from any sense of disappointment that "an idol" has been stripped bare but from being reminded of all the soldiers I have known who had a moment of glory followed by a pretty miserable life. For every old war hero pottering about in his rose garden with his wife making honey in the background, there are others living in their own private hell. That is my impression of Peiper. I don't need to read about it. It can be seen in photographs from the 1960s and 1970s. It's etched in his face.
To write books about a man like Peiper as a reaction against his perceived lionisation by alleged neo-Nazis, apologists and revisionists is the right of any author in a free society. However, it is not perhaps the best of motives. Rather than editorialising, why not simply allow the bald facts to speak for themselves? A dispassionate account of the life of Jochen Peiper would serve as a salutory warning in all sorts of ways. You don't have to spell these warnings out. The facts of his life and the manner of its ending suffice.
Yes, people ought to be dismayed by the story of Jochen Peiper but not perhaps in quite the way nor for quite the reasons Messrs Westemeier and Parker appear to presume.
PK
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sid guttridge
- on "time out"
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Troy Tempest
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In a way he is IMHO a micro cosmos of all what happened to Germany and the Germans during the third Reich.sid guttridge wrote:Hi Guys,
What is the military-historical importance of Peiper that he is the subject of various books and this ten page thread?
A mystified Sid.
A passionate, idealistic youth seduced to do the work for the devil...at one side of the coin a proud, successful, admired warrior...on the other side not all clean...finding himself after the war destroyed, shunned, a pariah....
![:[]](./images/smilies/icon_study.gif "Study"){kind=icon}
Peiper is more a synonym I think...