Final defence of Berlin

Opa · Post by **Opa** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:44 pm

For the French, see Jean Mabire, Mourir a Berlin. You can buy it from amazon.fr
http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2 ... 19-8937738

The author is tediously "politically correct" but the book has lots of details.

Wolfgang · Post by **Wolfgang** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:38 pm

Hello, You could try a book called " Battle for Berlin/ End of the third Reich " by Earl F. Ziemke-*1968. Lots of good stuff. It also tells of many of the Russian as well as German Units involved. I do know that the 11th SS Nordland Div help defend the Reichstag and the Moltke bridge.

http://www.mobil1.net/users/nordland/

I'll look around for some more inf.

Benoit Douville · Post by **Benoit Douville** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:38 pm

Opa,

Jean Mabire is one of my favorite author when it comes to deal wit the Waffen-SS.

Regards

Igor Geiller · Post by **Igor Geiller** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:03 am

Benoit Douville wrote:Opa,

Jean Mabire is one of my favorite author when it comes to deal wit the Waffen-SS.

Regards

In my opinion, the books of Jean Mabire are not highly reliable from the historical point of view. The author himself is of extreme-right-wing. For example, he never evokes the crimes committed by LVF on the eastern front.
If you are looking for a serious book about French volunteers on german army, I recommend to you to read this book:

GIOLITTO Pierre, Volontaires français sous l'uniforme allemand, Perrin

http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2 ... 46-2501850

Benoit Douville · Post by **Benoit Douville** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:21 pm

I have never heard about that author. In my view Jean Mabire is really the best when it comes to foreign Volunteers in the Waffen-SS, the way he wrote his book is amazing, I have several of his book and the guy is a master of writing. What difference does it makes that he is not talking about the crimes of the LVF, that's what make me upset when we talk about the Waffen-SS, it is alway coming down to the crimes they commited, can we talk about how they were probably the greatest soldier of all time and the way they perform in Battles for once. I am not saying they did not commited crimes because they did but just tired of hearing about it.

Regards

Schultz · Post by **Schultz** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:16 pm

Defeat in the East by Thorwald is great

lato716 · Post by **lato716** » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:01 am

for books of MABIRE and GIOLITTO, come and have a look at my website : http://www.lesvolontaires.net/

Opa · Post by **Opa** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:16 am

Jean Mabire is a Norman autonomist, not an "extreme right-wing" even though the leftist press tries to conflate that.

Igor Geiller · Post by **Igor Geiller** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:08 am

Opa wrote:Jean Mabire is a Norman autonomist, not an "extreme right-wing" even though the leftist press tries to conflate that.

Jean Mabire wrote in extreme-right newspapers, as Eléments and National hebdo (the official review of Front National, the party of Jean-Marie Le Pen).

Opa · Post by **Opa** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:05 pm

This is creating guilt by association. National Hebdo was then much more open to regionalist ideas than the jaconin mainstream, so he writes there, too. If the old stalinists at L'humanité had been friendly to Norman autonomy, he'd probably have written for them, too.

Il n'a pas de pétrole, mais il a des idées!

oleg · Post by **oleg** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:15 am

Much overlooked work on the subject is Erich, Kuby's- The Russians and Berlin.It just so happened that I managed to get 'smy hands on it and on the Beevor’s book at the same time. Being able to read them simultaneously I could not help but wonder what was so revolutionary about much trumpeted Beevor? His (Beevor’s) book copied layout that of Kuby – its used the same set of illustrations and if there was difference it was not favorable to Beevor. It is interesting that both authors are journalists with militry background - big difference being of course that Kuby actually German WW II vet. Who fought on both Western and Eastern fronts, and the experience of the later led him to far more profound understanding of the events in questions than Beevor could ever hope to achieve

Guripa · Post by **Guripa** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:28 pm

Yes, many of them were fighting in Berlin. Later the 250th Blue Division came back to Spain when the Wehrmatch moved its forces from the northern front of Russia for covering the front of the south attacked by the allies, in Sicily; the another group called "Blue Legion" with 2,500 members was joined, only with volunteers. When the Blue Legión dissolved, a big part of these men, they continued fighting, knowing that if did not return to Spain, they lost their spanish nationality. Even so, they joined with the german army, like germans. Their only obsession was to fight against the communists.

sturm und drang · Post by **sturm und drang** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:47 am

Dear Guripa, a good book about this argument is BERLIN, A VIDA O MUERTE, written by Miguel Ezquerra, a veteran of the Division Azul, that fought in Berlin.
Another well written book is also I LEONI MORTI (Italian edition, but i think that there is an english edition) written by Saint-Paulien, a fascinating history of a French volunteer that fought near the Cancellery with his Charlemagne comrades.
ciao

Lacplesis · Post by **Lacplesis** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:01 am

From 2 sources "Latvian Legion" by Arthur Silgails(English) and "MUMS JAPARNAK" by Aivars Petersons (Latvian) tell about the Latvians defending Berlin. The second book gives more detail of the fighting and personal accounts of how they survived . The 15th Fusilier Battallion of the 15th Latvian SS Division started outside Berlin with about 500 men remaining from their retreat and ended with about 80 survivors inside. I have posted on my website a breif story with two maps on my website one showing the final positions in the last days. http://www.lacplesis.com/610_Latvians_d ... Berlin.htm

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:46 am

Hi Guys,

I have to agree with the critics of Jean Mabire's books.

He suffers from one of the great weaknesses (in my opinion) of much French historical writing - a desire to invent dialogue where no actual record exists of what was said. There is (not unsurprisingly) a distinctly sub-intellectual strain in many French popular history books and Mabire is amongst them. For the sake of a good story they are prepared to go beyond the establishable facts. The problem for the reader is then to establish the dividing line between what is documented fact and what is literary imagination.

Mabire also seems to lack any critical faculties as far as his subjects are concerned, and I too get the impression that he either has right of centre inclinations or he knows when he is onto a good thing and doesn't want to alienate his sources or market by being in any way critical or unsupportive. As a result, a good number of veterans seem to have been willing to talk to him, but his books are essentially little more than their mouthpieces. They are partial and not particularly reliable history.

(I should point out that many French histories of regional maquis movements suffer from exactly the same faults and that Mabire is not alone).

Cheers,

Sid.

Feldgrau.net

Final defence of Berlin

French Waffen SS defenders of Berlin-Mitte

Defense of Berlin

Mabire

Re: Mabire

Freedom of the Press

Spanish voluteers in the Battle of Berlin

Latvians in Berlin