Hi all,
I have a question regarding the German Schnellboote S.155-158. These were former Dutch boats, captured at their dockyard in May 1940 (former names TM.58-61). According to Lenton "Navies of the Second World War: the Royal Netherlands Navy", these boats were transferred to the Bulgarian Navy as S.5 to S.8. The boats however appear to have been lost or captured when there were still in the Kriegsmarine. Were these boats just earmarked for transfer or did the transfer actually take place?
Also, can anyone confirm that S.201-202 were actually transferred and received pennants S.1 and S.2?
Also, what about S.3 and S.3 (the ships that seem to "fall out" between these two series?
Thanks in advance,
Jan Visser
http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl
Schnellboote S.155-158 / S.5-8 in the Bulgarian navy?
s-boats
Hello JAN!
I hope, you are fine!
In 1938 the Burgarian navy ordered 5 s-boats at Lürssen: F1-F5 (building no. 12730, 12735, 12740, 12745 and 12750). F1 and F2 were delivered, F3 was taken over by the German navy as S1 on 29.09.39 (boat was ready for delivering and loaded on a freighter) and F4 and F5 were cancelled after the beginning of the war, but were replaced later by S201 and S202.
S1 was mainly used as training vessel and in august of 1941 it was transfered as F3 to the Bulgarian navy via the river Danube. There it was used as spare boat for her sister boats. On 09.09.44 it was taken over by the Russians at Varna, renamed into TKA960 and used until 02.04.45. In 1953 it was disarmed and used as command boat. In 1975 it was broken up.
TM52 and TM53 (building no. M2 and M3) were nearly completed at Gusto, Schiedam. There were commissioned on 20.08.40 resp. 17.09.40 as S201 resp. S202 for the German navy. The 2. S-flottilla made some trials with these boats since september 1940. Both boats were stroken on 20.01.41 and sold to Bulgaria as F4 resp. F5. They were taken over by the Russians in september 1944 as TKA961 resp. TKA962 and used until 01.04.45. In 1960 they were stroken.
The building of the other boats of this serie - TM63-70 as German S203-S210 (building No. M4-M11)- were stopped in december 1940 due to missing torpedo tubes, etc. Parts of these boats were delivered to Rumania and Bulgaria between 1941 and the end of 1942. Perhaps even 2 complete vessels were delivered to Bulgaria as F6 and F7 during this time. It seems that F6 and F7 were taken over by the Russians in september 1944 as TKA964 and TKA965, used until 02.04.45 and were broken up in 1960.
TM54 - TM61 (Building no. M23-M30) were planned to build at Gusto, Schiedam, under license of Lürssen. The German navy ordered them on 06.08.40 after changing the construction (mainly from Rolls Royce to Daimler-Benz engines). All boats were transfered to the Mediterranian in autumn 1942:
S151, ex TM54
commissioned on 19.12.41, heavily damaged on 26.07.44 near Korcula on pos. 42°58N17°07E by British destroyer (5 deaths) and towed to Pola
S152, ex TM55
commissioned on 31.03.42
S153, ex TM56
commissioned on 19.04.42, sunk on 12.06.44, 01.09, north of Hvar on pos. 43°12N13°51E by British escort destroyer EGGESFORD, lost with all men
S154, ex TM57
commissioned on 10.06.42, sunk on 21.01.45 at Pola on pos. 44°52N13°51E by aircraft bomb
S155,ex TM58
commissioned 19.07.42, heavily damaged on 04.09.44 by accident and decommissioned
S156 ex TM59
commissioned on 05.09.42
S157, ex TM60
commissioned on 08.09.42, sunk on 01.05.45, 18.10, west of Triest on pos. 45°38,5N13°43E by Jugosly mortar fire (3 deaths), raised in 1952 and broken up
S158, ex TM61
commissioned on 09.09.42, sunk on 25.10.44, 11.35, at Sebenico on pos. 43!43N15°52E by aircraft bomb (2 deaths), wreck scutteled on 26. or 27.10.44
sources:
Gröner, Kriegsschiffe, vol.2 (2.edition)
Hümmelchen, Schnellboote
Fock, Schnellboote
Greetings from Austria
Peter K.
I hope, you are fine!
In 1938 the Burgarian navy ordered 5 s-boats at Lürssen: F1-F5 (building no. 12730, 12735, 12740, 12745 and 12750). F1 and F2 were delivered, F3 was taken over by the German navy as S1 on 29.09.39 (boat was ready for delivering and loaded on a freighter) and F4 and F5 were cancelled after the beginning of the war, but were replaced later by S201 and S202.
S1 was mainly used as training vessel and in august of 1941 it was transfered as F3 to the Bulgarian navy via the river Danube. There it was used as spare boat for her sister boats. On 09.09.44 it was taken over by the Russians at Varna, renamed into TKA960 and used until 02.04.45. In 1953 it was disarmed and used as command boat. In 1975 it was broken up.
TM52 and TM53 (building no. M2 and M3) were nearly completed at Gusto, Schiedam. There were commissioned on 20.08.40 resp. 17.09.40 as S201 resp. S202 for the German navy. The 2. S-flottilla made some trials with these boats since september 1940. Both boats were stroken on 20.01.41 and sold to Bulgaria as F4 resp. F5. They were taken over by the Russians in september 1944 as TKA961 resp. TKA962 and used until 01.04.45. In 1960 they were stroken.
The building of the other boats of this serie - TM63-70 as German S203-S210 (building No. M4-M11)- were stopped in december 1940 due to missing torpedo tubes, etc. Parts of these boats were delivered to Rumania and Bulgaria between 1941 and the end of 1942. Perhaps even 2 complete vessels were delivered to Bulgaria as F6 and F7 during this time. It seems that F6 and F7 were taken over by the Russians in september 1944 as TKA964 and TKA965, used until 02.04.45 and were broken up in 1960.
TM54 - TM61 (Building no. M23-M30) were planned to build at Gusto, Schiedam, under license of Lürssen. The German navy ordered them on 06.08.40 after changing the construction (mainly from Rolls Royce to Daimler-Benz engines). All boats were transfered to the Mediterranian in autumn 1942:
S151, ex TM54
commissioned on 19.12.41, heavily damaged on 26.07.44 near Korcula on pos. 42°58N17°07E by British destroyer (5 deaths) and towed to Pola
S152, ex TM55
commissioned on 31.03.42
S153, ex TM56
commissioned on 19.04.42, sunk on 12.06.44, 01.09, north of Hvar on pos. 43°12N13°51E by British escort destroyer EGGESFORD, lost with all men
S154, ex TM57
commissioned on 10.06.42, sunk on 21.01.45 at Pola on pos. 44°52N13°51E by aircraft bomb
S155,ex TM58
commissioned 19.07.42, heavily damaged on 04.09.44 by accident and decommissioned
S156 ex TM59
commissioned on 05.09.42
S157, ex TM60
commissioned on 08.09.42, sunk on 01.05.45, 18.10, west of Triest on pos. 45°38,5N13°43E by Jugosly mortar fire (3 deaths), raised in 1952 and broken up
S158, ex TM61
commissioned on 09.09.42, sunk on 25.10.44, 11.35, at Sebenico on pos. 43!43N15°52E by aircraft bomb (2 deaths), wreck scutteled on 26. or 27.10.44
sources:
Gröner, Kriegsschiffe, vol.2 (2.edition)
Hümmelchen, Schnellboote
Fock, Schnellboote
Greetings from Austria
Peter K.
Re: Schnellboote
Hi Peter,
Thank you for a most informative reply. I should have known you would be the first to jump into the subject
Yes, everything fine on the Dutch front. Hope all is well in Austria too!
As for the schnellboote, one reason why the S.201 and S.202 were removed from the Kriegsmarine lists so fast is that they were sabotaged! A dockyard worker tweaked the engines a bit, so when they arrived in German from Schiedam, both boats were immobilized with defects. He was ordered to Germany to repair the boats, refused and was fired by his own dockyard management! Go figure ....
The statement that TM.58-61 somehow ended up in Bulgarian Navy, I gather from your post, is incorrect. I will update the page of my site accordingly (mentioning your sources of course). Makes you wonder what else Lenton thought up in this booklet ....
Thanks again,
Jan
Thank you for a most informative reply. I should have known you would be the first to jump into the subject
Yes, everything fine on the Dutch front. Hope all is well in Austria too!
As for the schnellboote, one reason why the S.201 and S.202 were removed from the Kriegsmarine lists so fast is that they were sabotaged! A dockyard worker tweaked the engines a bit, so when they arrived in German from Schiedam, both boats were immobilized with defects. He was ordered to Germany to repair the boats, refused and was fired by his own dockyard management! Go figure ....
The statement that TM.58-61 somehow ended up in Bulgarian Navy, I gather from your post, is incorrect. I will update the page of my site accordingly (mentioning your sources of course). Makes you wonder what else Lenton thought up in this booklet ....
Thanks again,
Jan
Re: Schnellboote
Here's some information from The Ships of the Bulgarian Navy by Ilya Todorov.
Before the war, Bulgaria went to the Dutch for MTBs, and nineteen were laid down. After the Germans took the netherlands, they sent four of these boats (numbered 4-7) to Bulgaria. Boats 4 and 5 were sent with the Lurssen boat 3 via the Danube, but both had engine problems which ultimately necessitated the provision of brand-new engines. Boats 6 and 7 were sent later in summer 1943. All four ceded to the Soviets in 1944.
The contract for Lurssen boats was awarded on 15 Dec 1938. Boats 1 and 2 were delivered in 1939, but the war interfered. Boat 3 finally arrived in 1941. The other two boats never arrived.
My own Soviet information shows the Lurssen boats but not the others; however, I haven't yet completed my Soviet survey.
Before the war, Bulgaria went to the Dutch for MTBs, and nineteen were laid down. After the Germans took the netherlands, they sent four of these boats (numbered 4-7) to Bulgaria. Boats 4 and 5 were sent with the Lurssen boat 3 via the Danube, but both had engine problems which ultimately necessitated the provision of brand-new engines. Boats 6 and 7 were sent later in summer 1943. All four ceded to the Soviets in 1944.
The contract for Lurssen boats was awarded on 15 Dec 1938. Boats 1 and 2 were delivered in 1939, but the war interfered. Boat 3 finally arrived in 1941. The other two boats never arrived.
My own Soviet information shows the Lurssen boats but not the others; however, I haven't yet completed my Soviet survey.
Depending on how far along they were in construction when seized, it may not be possible to trace the path of the hull numbers. Bits and pieces of different boats may have been glued together, especially if they were damaged; or perhaps components assembled in expectation of orders not yet placed somehow figure into it. I do not have the resources to look into such fine distinctions. I do tend to believe Groner in the absence of a good reason not to.
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sid guttridge
- on "time out"
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- Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:54 am
Hi Guys,
1) ROMANIA.
I looked into this from the Romanian side some years ago.
If I remember correctly, 8 ex-Dutch Gusto boats were sent down the Danube by the Germans to Romania and Bulgaria, but there was some confusion amongst sources as to the exact distribution between the two navies. However, I can say with reasonable certainty that the Romanians allocated six names to Gusto boats, so I presume the distribution was 6:2 in Romanian favour.
I will give the names of the Romanian Gusto MTBs tomorrow.
The Romanians also reported Dutch sabotage of a key shaft coupling that reduced the maximum speed their Gusto boats could make.
2) BULGARIA.
This is what p.276 of "Fast Fighting Boats 1870-1945" by Harald Fock says about the Bulgarian boats:
"In the autumn of 1939 the Bulgarian Navy received four of the improved German type S 2-5 as F 1-4. The last boat ordered, F 5, was requisitioned by the German Navy as S 1.
In 1942 Bulgaria acquired two boats of the British Power Boat PV type, captured in 1940, which had been thoroughly tested by the German Navy as S 201-202. It appears that Gusto completed a further boat of this type for Bulgaria, delivered direct to the Black Sea."
(It appears that the "further boat" was actually S 1, as mentioned by Peter.)
Cheers,
Sid.
1) ROMANIA.
I looked into this from the Romanian side some years ago.
If I remember correctly, 8 ex-Dutch Gusto boats were sent down the Danube by the Germans to Romania and Bulgaria, but there was some confusion amongst sources as to the exact distribution between the two navies. However, I can say with reasonable certainty that the Romanians allocated six names to Gusto boats, so I presume the distribution was 6:2 in Romanian favour.
I will give the names of the Romanian Gusto MTBs tomorrow.
The Romanians also reported Dutch sabotage of a key shaft coupling that reduced the maximum speed their Gusto boats could make.
2) BULGARIA.
This is what p.276 of "Fast Fighting Boats 1870-1945" by Harald Fock says about the Bulgarian boats:
"In the autumn of 1939 the Bulgarian Navy received four of the improved German type S 2-5 as F 1-4. The last boat ordered, F 5, was requisitioned by the German Navy as S 1.
In 1942 Bulgaria acquired two boats of the British Power Boat PV type, captured in 1940, which had been thoroughly tested by the German Navy as S 201-202. It appears that Gusto completed a further boat of this type for Bulgaria, delivered direct to the Black Sea."
(It appears that the "further boat" was actually S 1, as mentioned by Peter.)
Cheers,
Sid.
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Victor Nitu
- Supporter
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 11:58 am
- Location: Bucharest, Romania
The Gusto MTBs were known in the Romanian Royal Navy as Power class MTBs (short for Gusto Power Boat). They were brought down the Elbe from Hamburg to Dresden, then on the highway to Ingolstadt and then down the Danube to Galati were they were assembled.
The 6 were named:
V 4 - Vedenia
V 5 - Vantul
V 6 - Vijelia
V 7 - Viforul
V 8 - Vartejul
V 9 - Vulcanul
The serial numbers were given in continuation with the older Vosper class MTBs (two of which had sunk in 1941, only V3 Viscolul surviving in 1942)
The 6 were named:
V 4 - Vedenia
V 5 - Vantul
V 6 - Vijelia
V 7 - Viforul
V 8 - Vartejul
V 9 - Vulcanul
The serial numbers were given in continuation with the older Vosper class MTBs (two of which had sunk in 1941, only V3 Viscolul surviving in 1942)
The name of the Power class was a reference to British Power Boat, the company that originated the plans licensed by Gusto Schiedam.
Romanian Navy Torpedo-Boats makes no mention of sabotage but merely complains of inferiority to the Vosper boats with the possibility of overweight (specific mention of the German-type torpedo mechanisms).
Romanian Navy Torpedo-Boats makes no mention of sabotage but merely complains of inferiority to the Vosper boats with the possibility of overweight (specific mention of the German-type torpedo mechanisms).
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101stDoc
- Associate
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Re: s-boats
Any ideas on what happened to her after she was towed to Pola? Scrapped after the war? Scuttled at the end?Peter K. wrote: S151, ex TM54 commissioned on 19.12.41, heavily damaged on 26.07.44 near Korcula on pos. 42°58N17°07E by British destroyer (5 deaths) and towed to Pola
Doc