I am currently reading the book "The Shadow War: European Resistance 1939-1945" by Henri Michel. On page 279 he paraprahes a "Colonel Teske" as saying that 175,000 German soldiers were killed by partisans in the Ukraine alone. Unfortunately, this book is absolutely worthless, in regards to footnotes, so I am unable to find out where he got this information from. I tried double checking this number with other books that I have, and I have not found a book that lists the numbers of German casulties (dead and wounded) suffered against the soviet (Russian/Ukrianian/Belorussian etc.) partisans. I have the book "The Third Reich and the Ukriane" by Wolodymyr Kosyk, but I am unable to find a total casualty figure for the Germans. He gives figures of casualties for individual battles, but I did not find an overall German casualty total for the entire war (in this case, just against the Ukrainian partisans). Does anyone have a source that gives such information? Thanks.
Brian Burmeister
German casulties against soviet partisans
According to Henri Michel, the Germans suffered 175,000 dead in the battle against the Ukrianian partisans, which is a figure I find completely unbelievable. To suffer 175,000 dead, would mean that the total casulties (and this is just a guess on may part), dead AND wounded, would probably have to be around 500,000. And that is just NOT possible. I don't know if the Germans suffered 175,000 TOTAL dead, against ALL partisans (i.e. Russia, Yugoslavia, the Maquis, etc. etc.). Now Wolodymyr Kosyk's book "The Third Reich and the Ukraine" list German casulties per battle. The largest casulites I could find was over a three month period in 1943 (July through September)(The Third Reich and the Ukriane, page 363) and the casulties was supposed to have a little over 3,000 dead over those three months. (and that is just against the Ukrianian partisans, and these are figures given by the partisans, my guess is that the Germans probably had a different casualty figure for those three months). Even at that rate the Germans still could not have suffered 175,000 dead against the Ukrianian partisans. But at any rate, I will continue to do some digging and see what I can find.
I do not believe it
this is a topic which keeps puzzling me for some time as well.
It is extremely difficult to quantify German losses in the occupied countries. Local mythologies usually inflate the numbers to massive proportions and I have never seen any OKW numbers.
Feldgrau says there were some 36.000 KIA/MIA in the entire Balkans, but a great http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/a ... BALKAN.HTM page estimates German losses at some 10% of all forces engaged. Given there were usually 6-7 divisions stationed in the Balkans, this would suggest a lower figure, in the range of some 10.000 people.
Another area with strong resistance was Poland. The Poles say they have killed some 150.000 soldiers, policemen, gestapo, schupo, admin people and all others, but if you review all major battles it is hard to agree there were more than 25.000 soldiers killed.
I have never seen any reliable figures for Italy. http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/spring98/OSS.html says there were 5.000 German soldiers killed by the Italian resistance in just 3 months (Jun-Aug 44), but this sounds like pure fiction. I would be surprised to find there were more than 5.000 German soldiers killed by the Italian resistance during the entire occupation period.
Other countries do not count. In Denmark, for instance, local resistance claims to have killed 375 Germans, but it is hard to tell how many were soldiers - http://www.milhist.dk/besattelsen/ww2stat/ww2stat.html. My bet would be not more than 3.000 thousand for all the rest (Denmark, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Czech).
This would add up to not more than 60.000 killed outside the USSR. I know that the scale of partisan operations in the USSR was incomparable to anything else, though it is beyond my capacity to come out with any estimate, especially given it is hard to tell regular soldiers from other formations and to tell Germans from other nationalities (esp. the USRR nations). Having said all this, I must admit that using the "comparative background" method I consider the number of 175.000 German soldiers killed by resistance in the Ukraine alone nothing but rubbish.
It is extremely difficult to quantify German losses in the occupied countries. Local mythologies usually inflate the numbers to massive proportions and I have never seen any OKW numbers.
Feldgrau says there were some 36.000 KIA/MIA in the entire Balkans, but a great http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/a ... BALKAN.HTM page estimates German losses at some 10% of all forces engaged. Given there were usually 6-7 divisions stationed in the Balkans, this would suggest a lower figure, in the range of some 10.000 people.
Another area with strong resistance was Poland. The Poles say they have killed some 150.000 soldiers, policemen, gestapo, schupo, admin people and all others, but if you review all major battles it is hard to agree there were more than 25.000 soldiers killed.
I have never seen any reliable figures for Italy. http://www.cia.gov/csi/studies/spring98/OSS.html says there were 5.000 German soldiers killed by the Italian resistance in just 3 months (Jun-Aug 44), but this sounds like pure fiction. I would be surprised to find there were more than 5.000 German soldiers killed by the Italian resistance during the entire occupation period.
Other countries do not count. In Denmark, for instance, local resistance claims to have killed 375 Germans, but it is hard to tell how many were soldiers - http://www.milhist.dk/besattelsen/ww2stat/ww2stat.html. My bet would be not more than 3.000 thousand for all the rest (Denmark, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Czech).
This would add up to not more than 60.000 killed outside the USSR. I know that the scale of partisan operations in the USSR was incomparable to anything else, though it is beyond my capacity to come out with any estimate, especially given it is hard to tell regular soldiers from other formations and to tell Germans from other nationalities (esp. the USRR nations). Having said all this, I must admit that using the "comparative background" method I consider the number of 175.000 German soldiers killed by resistance in the Ukraine alone nothing but rubbish.
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derGespenst
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sid guttridge
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Hi Guys,
I have nothing direct on this issue, but some related facts may be of interest.
It is clear that the 175,000 figure for German dead in the Ukraine against Partisans cannot be supported.
The 8,000-strong Slovak Security Division lost only a few hundred dead in the Ukraine over 1941-43.
The Ersatzheer, which had two of its approximately 16 reserve divisions in the Ukraine over 1942-44, suffered about 40,000 dead in the entire war, the vast majority after November 1944. This included all Germans killed in training accidents, and Ersatzheer units on occupation duties in Byelorussia, the Balkans, Poland, Italy, France and Denmark, as well as the Ukraine.
From memory, the 36,000 dead figure for the Balkans is about right. However, the vast majority of these were incurred after conventional fighting broke out in Yugoslavia after August 1944. The German presence in Yugoslavia probably only averaged seven divisions in 1941-42. By 1944 there were some 20 divisions in the theatre. A 10,000 dead figure for the pre-August 1944 Partisan phase is probably about right.
If memory serves me correctly, the Germans declared they had lost about 15,000 casualties (including dead, wounded and missing) in the General Gouvernment in Poland during the entire war, and about two-thirds of these were during the two months of the Warsaw Uprising.
All these factors lead one to believe that 175,000 is a much exaggerated figure. However, many, perhaps most of the opponents of the Partisans in the Ukraine were not Germans at all and would presumably fall outside German Army internal accounting procedures. Hungarians, Romanians and Slovaks contributed entire divisions to security in the Ukraine and many dozens of security battalions drawn from the Baltic States and the Ukrainians themselves were present.
So I would suggest that having drastically cut estimates of specifically German dead, one would have to add a considerable but indeterminate number of non-German dead.
Cheers,
Sid.
I have nothing direct on this issue, but some related facts may be of interest.
It is clear that the 175,000 figure for German dead in the Ukraine against Partisans cannot be supported.
The 8,000-strong Slovak Security Division lost only a few hundred dead in the Ukraine over 1941-43.
The Ersatzheer, which had two of its approximately 16 reserve divisions in the Ukraine over 1942-44, suffered about 40,000 dead in the entire war, the vast majority after November 1944. This included all Germans killed in training accidents, and Ersatzheer units on occupation duties in Byelorussia, the Balkans, Poland, Italy, France and Denmark, as well as the Ukraine.
From memory, the 36,000 dead figure for the Balkans is about right. However, the vast majority of these were incurred after conventional fighting broke out in Yugoslavia after August 1944. The German presence in Yugoslavia probably only averaged seven divisions in 1941-42. By 1944 there were some 20 divisions in the theatre. A 10,000 dead figure for the pre-August 1944 Partisan phase is probably about right.
If memory serves me correctly, the Germans declared they had lost about 15,000 casualties (including dead, wounded and missing) in the General Gouvernment in Poland during the entire war, and about two-thirds of these were during the two months of the Warsaw Uprising.
All these factors lead one to believe that 175,000 is a much exaggerated figure. However, many, perhaps most of the opponents of the Partisans in the Ukraine were not Germans at all and would presumably fall outside German Army internal accounting procedures. Hungarians, Romanians and Slovaks contributed entire divisions to security in the Ukraine and many dozens of security battalions drawn from the Baltic States and the Ukrainians themselves were present.
So I would suggest that having drastically cut estimates of specifically German dead, one would have to add a considerable but indeterminate number of non-German dead.
Cheers,
Sid.
Hello.
The "History of the Great Patriotic War", Part 6, of the Institute for Marxism-Leninism claims that partisans caused the following numbers
of german casulties:
German soldiers killed, wounded and taken as prisoners: 1.500.000
Destroyed railway transports: 21.295
Destroyed Tanks and armored vehicles: 4.112
Destroyed artillery pieces: 2.015
Destroyed planes: 428
Destoyed trucks and cars: 45.211
Destroyed and captured "camps": 2.580
Sovjet staff officer and historian B.S. Telpuchowski wrote that alone
belorussian partisans "get rid off" 500.000 german soldiers within
three years. Historian Prof. Seidler refers to the official history of
partisan war "Sowjetskie Partisani" that assumes also a number of
500.000 overall losses. The number of the participants of partisan
actions is stated with a maximum of 1.900.000.
I know that numbers are ridiculous, but it would be interesting to
know how they came into being. But one is for sure: partisan actions
caused severe supply problems, especially in the back of Army Group
"Mitte" during the summer of 1944.
Kristian
The "History of the Great Patriotic War", Part 6, of the Institute for Marxism-Leninism claims that partisans caused the following numbers
of german casulties:
German soldiers killed, wounded and taken as prisoners: 1.500.000
Destroyed railway transports: 21.295
Destroyed Tanks and armored vehicles: 4.112
Destroyed artillery pieces: 2.015
Destroyed planes: 428
Destoyed trucks and cars: 45.211
Destroyed and captured "camps": 2.580
Sovjet staff officer and historian B.S. Telpuchowski wrote that alone
belorussian partisans "get rid off" 500.000 german soldiers within
three years. Historian Prof. Seidler refers to the official history of
partisan war "Sowjetskie Partisani" that assumes also a number of
500.000 overall losses. The number of the participants of partisan
actions is stated with a maximum of 1.900.000.
I know that numbers are ridiculous, but it would be interesting to
know how they came into being. But one is for sure: partisan actions
caused severe supply problems, especially in the back of Army Group
"Mitte" during the summer of 1944.
Kristian
Hi Everyone,
Thanks Kristian for those numbers, even though I would say they are definately way too high. I would agree with you Sid, that many of the casulties suffered by the Germans in the Ukraine, could well have been troops from other nations. So, when Kosyk states in his book "The Third Reich and the Ukriane" on page 363 "Losses during these three months totalled: 1,237 UPA soldiers and officers killed or wounded; at least 5,000 killed amoung the civilian population; more than 3,000 killed on the German side (Shankovsky Ukrainska 672)." It is very possible that many of the 3,000 dead could well have been soldiers of other axis nations. So, coming up with a total German only figure for numbers of killed, wounded and taken prisoner against the partisans will be difficult. I know General Jodl is supposed to have made a statement during his trial (Nurember War Crimes Tribunal), that he thought that the Germans suffered less than a total of 50,000 dead against all partisans. (I will need to do some more research to see if I can find that quote). I think 50,000 is a fairly accurate figure, coming from a guy who would certainly been privy to that type of information. Thanks 4444, the wesites you gave had some very good and I believe very reliable information. If anyone else has any other info to post, please do!
Thanks,
Brian Burmeister
Thanks Kristian for those numbers, even though I would say they are definately way too high. I would agree with you Sid, that many of the casulties suffered by the Germans in the Ukraine, could well have been troops from other nations. So, when Kosyk states in his book "The Third Reich and the Ukriane" on page 363 "Losses during these three months totalled: 1,237 UPA soldiers and officers killed or wounded; at least 5,000 killed amoung the civilian population; more than 3,000 killed on the German side (Shankovsky Ukrainska 672)." It is very possible that many of the 3,000 dead could well have been soldiers of other axis nations. So, coming up with a total German only figure for numbers of killed, wounded and taken prisoner against the partisans will be difficult. I know General Jodl is supposed to have made a statement during his trial (Nurember War Crimes Tribunal), that he thought that the Germans suffered less than a total of 50,000 dead against all partisans. (I will need to do some more research to see if I can find that quote). I think 50,000 is a fairly accurate figure, coming from a guy who would certainly been privy to that type of information. Thanks 4444, the wesites you gave had some very good and I believe very reliable information. If anyone else has any other info to post, please do!
Thanks,
Brian Burmeister
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sid guttridge
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Hi Maus,
I have dug up a few more precise figures than those I posted earlier.
The Slovak Security Division in the Ukraine had about 6,500 men in the first half of 1943. During this period it suffered about 60 dead, including some through accidents. Total Slovak fatalities on the Eastern Front over June 1941 - September 1943 were just over 1,000, the majority of whom were suffered by the Rapid Division at the front.
The Ersatzheer, which not only had two reserve divisions in the Ukraine in 1942-43, but some sixteen others in other occupied areas of Europe, recorded a total of 3,319 dead and 1,234 missing between 1/6/41 and 30/4/44.
In the General Gouvernment of Poland, the locally-based Wehrmacht recorded the loss of 6,722 soldiers, 2,805 SS and Police and 1,984 Reichsdeutch and "VC" (?) men between August 1942 and December 1944. (It is not clear whether these "losses" are just dead, or dead, wounded and missing combined. I am strongly inclined to believe that it refers to combined dead, wounded and missing, most of which were incurred suppressing the Warsaw Uprising.)
German losses in the Balkans during the purely Partisan phase from 22/6/41 to 30/8/44 were recorded as 10,532 dead, 7,527 missing and 29,237 wounded. Total: 47,296. This is approximately the same as German losses over running Poland in September 1939. (However, the Italians also suffered 30,351 casualties in Yugoslavia alone, the Bulgarians probably suffered several thousand and the Croats probably lost far more than any of them.)
I think total German fatalities in Denmark were only two or three dozen.
Cheers,
Sid.
I have dug up a few more precise figures than those I posted earlier.
The Slovak Security Division in the Ukraine had about 6,500 men in the first half of 1943. During this period it suffered about 60 dead, including some through accidents. Total Slovak fatalities on the Eastern Front over June 1941 - September 1943 were just over 1,000, the majority of whom were suffered by the Rapid Division at the front.
The Ersatzheer, which not only had two reserve divisions in the Ukraine in 1942-43, but some sixteen others in other occupied areas of Europe, recorded a total of 3,319 dead and 1,234 missing between 1/6/41 and 30/4/44.
In the General Gouvernment of Poland, the locally-based Wehrmacht recorded the loss of 6,722 soldiers, 2,805 SS and Police and 1,984 Reichsdeutch and "VC" (?) men between August 1942 and December 1944. (It is not clear whether these "losses" are just dead, or dead, wounded and missing combined. I am strongly inclined to believe that it refers to combined dead, wounded and missing, most of which were incurred suppressing the Warsaw Uprising.)
German losses in the Balkans during the purely Partisan phase from 22/6/41 to 30/8/44 were recorded as 10,532 dead, 7,527 missing and 29,237 wounded. Total: 47,296. This is approximately the same as German losses over running Poland in September 1939. (However, the Italians also suffered 30,351 casualties in Yugoslavia alone, the Bulgarians probably suffered several thousand and the Croats probably lost far more than any of them.)
I think total German fatalities in Denmark were only two or three dozen.
Cheers,
Sid.
Hi Sid,
Thanks so much for those figures. Those are excellent figures (very precise). I am assuming that they originated from original OKW/OKH documents. The number of casulties that the Germans suffered in Poland (occupying Poland) is very interesting. I just bought the book "Rising '44" by Norman Davies and he states a figure of 9,000 "German" dead by 21 August (page 284, Rising '44), and the fighting would rage until October 2. So, the figure of 9,000 dead by August 21 seems a bit too high. I do not know where he got the figure of 9,000 dead from, as he did not footnote that paragraph. As far as I can see from the book, he does not give a listing of total German casulties for the whole rising (through October 2).
Sid, your figures are very imformative. I think many people have the impression that the Germans suffered "massive" losses from the war against the partisans (of all countries). I know for instance (and I forgot where I read this from), that in one book I read the author stated that the Germans had lost over 100,000 dead in Poland (between 1939-1945) just fighting the resistance forces! And of course you have the figure that I quoted above, the 175,000 German dead fighting the partisans in the Ukriane, and it all leaves a very distorted sense of what really happened. The partisans did inflict heavy casualties on the Germans, but they were not equipped (generally speaking) to take on the Germans "head on" in open warfare, so they were never going to inflict serious damage on the Germans. The best that they could do (and they were really effective at this), was sabotage, such as derailing trains, blowing up ammo dumps ect. ect. Thanks again Sid for the info. If anyone comes across any numbers for the total casualties suffered by the Germans in the Soviet Union (from fighting the Partisans), please post it. Thanks so much!
Brian Burmeister
Thanks so much for those figures. Those are excellent figures (very precise). I am assuming that they originated from original OKW/OKH documents. The number of casulties that the Germans suffered in Poland (occupying Poland) is very interesting. I just bought the book "Rising '44" by Norman Davies and he states a figure of 9,000 "German" dead by 21 August (page 284, Rising '44), and the fighting would rage until October 2. So, the figure of 9,000 dead by August 21 seems a bit too high. I do not know where he got the figure of 9,000 dead from, as he did not footnote that paragraph. As far as I can see from the book, he does not give a listing of total German casulties for the whole rising (through October 2).
Sid, your figures are very imformative. I think many people have the impression that the Germans suffered "massive" losses from the war against the partisans (of all countries). I know for instance (and I forgot where I read this from), that in one book I read the author stated that the Germans had lost over 100,000 dead in Poland (between 1939-1945) just fighting the resistance forces! And of course you have the figure that I quoted above, the 175,000 German dead fighting the partisans in the Ukriane, and it all leaves a very distorted sense of what really happened. The partisans did inflict heavy casualties on the Germans, but they were not equipped (generally speaking) to take on the Germans "head on" in open warfare, so they were never going to inflict serious damage on the Germans. The best that they could do (and they were really effective at this), was sabotage, such as derailing trains, blowing up ammo dumps ect. ect. Thanks again Sid for the info. If anyone comes across any numbers for the total casualties suffered by the Germans in the Soviet Union (from fighting the Partisans), please post it. Thanks so much!
Brian Burmeister
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sid guttridge
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Hi Maus,
The figures for the General Gouvernment and the Balkans come from photocopied German documents held in the Imperial War Museum. Presumably identical microfilmed documents are held in the US Library of Congress and the originals, I believe, are now back in Germany
The Slovak figures come from a role of honour published by the wartime Slovak government giving the name, date and place of death of over 1,000 men up to September or October 1943. From the place of death it is possible to work out whether the fatalities were in the Security or Rapid Divisions.
As I pointed out, my figures for the General Gouvernment are also unclear as to whether they include dead only, or dead, wounded and missing. However, my belief is that they refer to total losses, not just dead. I have a separate figure that indicates that German dead in the largest rural anti-partisan drive in the GG throughout the war were 105 dead out of at least 15,000 men deployed. I therefore believe that the Warsaw Uprising accounted for the majority of German casualties in the GG. About a year ago I started a thread on the German losses during the Warsaw Uprising. Try the Search facility on Feldgrau to find it and type in my name as author.
I think that partisans added far more stress to the German war machine than a mere accounting of (the vastly exaggerated) casualties would indicate. For example, although the Ersatzheer losses against partisans were light, some thirty of its divisions that should have been devoted exclusively to training replacements for the Feldheer had to be deployed on occupied territory at various times in order to double as occupation forces. Especially behind the Eastern Front such duties seriously disrupted training, with the result that the Feldheer was constantly complaining about the quality of the replacements it received.
Cheers,
Sid.
The figures for the General Gouvernment and the Balkans come from photocopied German documents held in the Imperial War Museum. Presumably identical microfilmed documents are held in the US Library of Congress and the originals, I believe, are now back in Germany
The Slovak figures come from a role of honour published by the wartime Slovak government giving the name, date and place of death of over 1,000 men up to September or October 1943. From the place of death it is possible to work out whether the fatalities were in the Security or Rapid Divisions.
As I pointed out, my figures for the General Gouvernment are also unclear as to whether they include dead only, or dead, wounded and missing. However, my belief is that they refer to total losses, not just dead. I have a separate figure that indicates that German dead in the largest rural anti-partisan drive in the GG throughout the war were 105 dead out of at least 15,000 men deployed. I therefore believe that the Warsaw Uprising accounted for the majority of German casualties in the GG. About a year ago I started a thread on the German losses during the Warsaw Uprising. Try the Search facility on Feldgrau to find it and type in my name as author.
I think that partisans added far more stress to the German war machine than a mere accounting of (the vastly exaggerated) casualties would indicate. For example, although the Ersatzheer losses against partisans were light, some thirty of its divisions that should have been devoted exclusively to training replacements for the Feldheer had to be deployed on occupied territory at various times in order to double as occupation forces. Especially behind the Eastern Front such duties seriously disrupted training, with the result that the Feldheer was constantly complaining about the quality of the replacements it received.
Cheers,
Sid.