36th Waffen SS- Most notorious?

[DasReichX]

I have a friend on another forum who believes that the 36th Waffen SS Division is the most notorious of all German divisions, I was skimming through different articles on the history and operations of 'Dirlewanger'. He said that it would tear through any division in its path, and qould rape, pillage, and destroy all. I find this hard to believe because the division had only formed divisional status in Feb. 1945, which is obviously close to VE-Day. Could anyone help clear this up for me, please?
Thanks!

[Tom Houlihan]

Notorious, I would believe. Rape and pillage, I'd accept. As far as armed combat with an armed opponent, I wouldn't rate them all that highly.

Take a look at wssob.com for more info about this outfit.

[Juha Hujanen]

Dirlewanger was designed as anti-partisan unit and it was used in some effect in that role (without to forgot the brutal way of war that lot used),However when Dirlewanger encountered regular Soviet units with tanks and artillery it was no match against them.

Cheers/Juha

[Freiritter]

Considering that Dirlewanger members were Waffen-SS criminals, concentration camp inmates and ex-Soviet POWs, it gained it's fearsome reputation by it's lack of discipline and self-restraint, made worse by the nature of counter-partisan warfare. Essentially, this formation was a band of quasi-medieval reavers with little to no value on a conventional battlefield. If I'm not mistaken, most of Dirlewanger's operational history, it was a regiment or a brigade.

Cordially,

Freiritter

[militaryhistorywriter]

Dear Sir,
Schiffer Books published a book in 1998 entitled The Cruel Hunters: SS-Sonder-Kommando Dirlewanger, Hitler's Most Notorious Anti-Partisan Unit by French L. MacLean. This book will give you an excellant account of this unit. May God Bless-Major Robert A. Lynn, USMCR

[fknorr]

Dear Sir,
Schiffer Books published a book in 1998 entitled The Cruel Hunters: SS-Sonder-Kommando Dirlewanger, Hitler's Most Notorious Anti-Partisan Unit by French L. MacLean. This book will give you an excellant account of this unit. May God Bless-Major Robert A. Lynn, USMCR

I read this book and can attest to the quality of the volume. It covers Dirlewanger from WWI through Freikorps, prison and into and through WWII. It covers not only the man but the unit, various battles (including Warsaw where it gained (or embellished) it's already fearful reputation.

I have to comment on an earlier post here stating that it did not fair well against 'regular' troops w/armor and Artillery...I would state that NO unit would fair well if confronted w/superior firepower as I do not remember the Dirlewanger Brigade having any attached units as those mentioned. When reading about this outfit it seemed as though having trucks/half tracks just to transport the men was a stretch at times and any additional firepower (i.e. Artillery/Armor) would be attached for what ever battle...so you cannot slight the Brigade for not fairing well in that type of battle. I believe they had attached mortars but I do not have this volume in front of me at the moment.

If my memory serves me correctly by the time the Dirlewanger Brigade (eventually division) came up against regulars, no German unit could really boast 'equality' in artillery, armor, air, etc, So I would argue that this unit did just fine although quite brutal in it's means to an end.

[Paul_9686]

If a "military" outfit (I use the term loosely) is composed of criminal riff-raff and scum, and commanded by a pervert like Dirlewanger, I would presume it was made up of sadistic bullies who would gladly butcher partisans and civilians, but would fall apart like a house of cards at the very mention of possible posting to front-line combat.

Just my two pfennigs.

Yours,
Paul

[fknorr]

If a "military" outfit (I use the term loosely) is composed of criminal riff-raff and scum, and commanded by a pervert like Dirlewanger, I would presume it was made up of sadistic bullies who would gladly butcher partisans and civilians, but would fall apart like a house of cards at the very mention of possible posting to front-line combat.

Just my two pfennigs.

Yours,
Paul

Paul,

Obviously your two pfennings are coming up way short here for the Dirlewanger unit was arguably the best anti-partisan unit the Germans had. Notorious in their savagery, yes but the so-called Partisans were no angels either.

The unit after being brought up to division strength severely beaten but came far from folding like a house of cards...ESPECIALLY considering the overwelming Russian superiority in men and material.

[Reb]

See this thread for look at Dirlwanger in action:
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... 0405#80405

I feel sick every time I remember that piece of trash escaped. But in the end - no one escapes.

Reb

[fknorr]

I read this story on another forum...I believe a lot of this is fiction.

There is no doubt Dirlewanger was evil but I believe that a good portion of this story is fabrication.

Just because it is "written" does not mean it is accurate.

[Holmer]

See this thread for look at Dirlwanger in action:
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopi ... 0405#80405

I feel sick every time I remember that piece of trash escaped. But in the end - no one escapes.

Reb

Interesting read. I agree, it makes me sick when soldiers kill/massacre innocent civilians especially children.

What did happen to Dirlwanger?

Regards,

Holmer

[Paul_9686]

Holmer, I've read somewhere that Dirlewanger was in American custody in June or July 1945, and was beaten to death by Polish guards.

Can anyone back me up, or provide other information about Dirlewanger's fate?

Yours,
Paul

[Holmer]

I found this....

Oskar Dirlewanger was recovering from his last wound at a hospital in Althausen, Bavaria, at the end of the war. On June 1st, 1945, French occupation forces used Polish soldiers in their service to forcibly bring him to the Althausen jail. Dirlewanger was beaten and tortured over the next several days. He died under torture from the Polish guards during the night of June 4-5. This information was supressed at the time, and many bogus sightings of him were made around the world, until his remains were exhaumed and identified in 1960.

from http://www.feldgrau.com/36ss.html

Regards,

Holmer

[Paddy Keating]

Quite a few 'recruits' to the Dirlewanger unit were not penal but disciplinary cases, serving long sentences with hard labour for relatively minor infractions of the draconian Waffen-SS code of conduct. I interviewed one man who, as a young JNCO in the Waffen-SS, was denounced for listening to the BBC, sentenced to death and then 'reprieved' by having his sentence commuted to 20 years forced labour. He ended up in the notorious quarries of Mauthausen. He volunteered for the newly-forming SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500, which accepted many disciplinary cases into its ranks (Bewährungs-Soldaten) but was found unfit for parachute training. So he was packed off the Dirlewanger. He still suffers from nightmares. He was one of many such 'political' cases. The man is alive and his personnel records back up his story, as do his papers. He still has his soldbuch and the correspondence between his family and SS HQ. That the Soviets released him and others like him in 1948 speaks volumes.

PK

[fknorr]

If you read "The Cruel Hunters" regarding Dirlewanger and his brigade/later Division, there is an appendix stating the make-up of unit over the course of it's existence and to what percentage was "penal" type membership.

In the beginning it was approx 90% poachers, but keep in mind it was only approx. company strength. Later on, there were a large number of foreign volunteers and towards the end when it was brought up to division strength, there was a vast percentage of non-SS, non-Penal, non-foreign membership from say the Luftwaffe, Wehrmacht, etc....