Waffen SS Para units

sturm und drang · Post by **sturm und drang** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 9:07 am

Do you know a book about "Operation Roesselsprung"?
In English language, if possible...

Kameraden · Post by **Kameraden** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:13 am

n/t

Sorry wrong thread please delete

Kameraden · Post by **Kameraden** » Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:16 am

I have a nice Picture in 1 of my books of an SS Fallshirmjager without Smock.He's in normal SS Uniform apart from having a Paratroopers Stahlhelm.

Paddy Keating · Post by **Paddy Keating** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:58 am

This is an old topic, I know, but a couple of points need to be addressed in the hope that it might save someone from an expensive mistake. Very good post by Mr Pipes, by the way. The SS-FJ veterans I have known would get very ratty if anyone described SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 as a penal unit! They were, from Milius downwards, very defensive about this.

Thomas V. wrote:Furthermore, from October onwards, the men were issued with Luftwaffe helmets from their stocks (Model1938), with the double Sig-Rune applied over the eagle.

No SS-Fallschirmjäger ever wore an M38 jump helmet with the SS decal. Any such jump helmet offered on the market is either an original helmet with a postwar-applied decal or a out-and-out fake. If an SS paratrooper received a helmet with the LW eagle, he sometimes scratched it off but quite a few didn't bother.

Tim wrote:Thomas, Thanks for that, Interesting about the helmet runes I havent seen any photos with this showing. You may be able to help with another query, did any SS camoflage stocks be made into Para overalls or helmet covers ? one question I am interested to find out.

There are several jump smocks in Waffen-SS camouflage material which are accepted as originals but prototypes. These were taken from the Dachau complex at the end of the war. Some US veterans apparently used them as hunting jackets but I know of one that remains in good condition. It has a Waffen-SS sleeve eagle on the breast but it is believed that this was applied after WW2.

They were never issued to SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 or 600. SS paratroopers wore standard Luftwaffe-issue jump smocks of various kinds. Some SS paras removed the LW breast eagles while some left them in place. There is one photo of an SS paratrooper with a Waffen-SS sleeve eagle on his smock but this was an unofficial personal touch.

No photograph has ever come to light showing an SS paratrooper with a helmet cover. They used the FJ-issue helmet net, though.

PK

nino · Post by **nino** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:56 pm

Hi sturm und drang,

There are some books that have a piece infos about Operation Roesselsprung in English. But I only know two books that have some length story of it:

1) Forgotten Legions by Antonio J. Munoz
2) Hunter's from the Sky by Charles Whiting (many of Munoz story about the operation came from this book)

There also a book in English that I read during my student days that related with the story. Unfortunately, I forgot the title (maybe Guerilla Warfare in Yugoslavia). The book itself is about the partisan warfare, written and published by Yugoslavian.

Regards,
Nino

Paddy Keating · Post by **Paddy Keating** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:54 am

The late Siegfried Milius was rather dismissive of Antonio Munoz's SS-Fallschirmjäger-related writing, particularly his account of Drvar, describing it in writing and also in conversation with me as "a work of fiction". Milius was CO of both the 500 and the 600.

Other veterans hadn't much to say, though. I think if anything they were glad that someone had at least bothered. They tend to see themselves as forgotten soldiers. There is also the consideration that Milius was not at Drvar. He only took over as CO late in June 1944. He was still with the Totenkopf. I know that he was rather angry about Munoz's description of him standing on the banks of the Oder holding back the tears. Milius thought this was uncredible impertinence.

Agte is apparently working on a book about SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500/600 for Munin Verlag. So am I, but it is not likely to resemble anything Agte produces. Agte's book will of course be in German although there may be a translation but, to be honest, translated military books tend to be full of errors and mistranslations because many publishers/packagers are too tight-fisted to employ qualified writers to rewrite the raw translations.

PK

sflynn · Post by **sflynn** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:45 am

At the company/platoon/section level was the SS-FJ organized like other Waffen-SS infantry units? Or was it closer to standard Luftwaffe parachute infantry? In Kommando, Lucas shows an organizational structure including a rifle platoon with three rifle sections, three machine gun sections, a mortar section and a platoon HQ element. This is totally different from anything I've seen anywhere else. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Sean

sturm und drang · Post by **sturm und drang** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:21 am

Hello Nino, many thanks for book details

Paddy Keating · Post by **Paddy Keating** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:33 am

OK, Sean, here you are. The SS Parachute Bn was larger than a Luftwaffe Para Bn, with almost 1100 men to the typical LW ORBAT of about 850 men. Roughly half the initial intake were disciplinary cases invited to volunteer to regain their honour on the battlefield, while many of the other volunteers were officers, NCOs and SS men who had problems of various kinds in their parent units. When initially formed in November 1943, SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 comprised:

Stab/SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 (HQ Coy)
Supply Coy
Motor Transport Pln
Signals Pln
Motorcycle Dispatch Section
Repair & Maintenance Pln
Parachute Equipment Maintenance Section
Legal Section (for handling the Disciplinary Soldiers)

1./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500
Rifle Pln
Rifle Pln
Rifle Pln
Signals Detachment

2./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500
Rifle Pln
Rifle Pln
Rifle Pln
Signals Detachment

3./SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500
Rifle Pln
Rifle Pln
Rifle Pln
Signals Detachment

4. (schw)/SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 (4 (Heavy) Coy or “Support Coy”)
Heavy MG Pln (Four MGs)
Heavy Mortar Pln (Four 80mm mortars)
Light Artillery/Anti-Tank Pln (Four 75mm LG40s)
Flamethrower Pln

Feld-Ausbildungs-Kompanie (Field Training Coy)*

*Sometimes called Feld-Ausbildungs und Erstaz Kompanie

Each of the Rifle Platoons consisted of three rifle sections, three light MG detachments, three submachine-gun detachments and a mortar squad. What made the SS Para Bn different from its Luftwaffe counterparts was its totally self-contained, self-reliany nature. The SS Para Bn even had its very own training and replacement company. Where a Luftwaffe Para Bn HQ had 138 men on its ORBAT, the SS Para Bn had 267. Additionally, the SS Para Bn had over a hundred trucks and thirty motorcycles.

When reformed as SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 in November 1944, the Field Training & Replacement Company became the new 1st Coy. The new SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 came under the administrative control of Otto Skorzeny’s SS-Jagdverbände organisation at Friedenthal. During its eighteen months existence, an estimated 3500 men passed through the ranks of the SS Para Bn, which was all but annihilated four times, first at Drvar in May 1944 and then on the Eastern Front.

PK

sflynn · Post by **sflynn** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:52 pm

Wow!

Thanks for all the info. I'd been wondering about that ever since I read Lucas' book. Thanks again.

Sean