Batalion / Abteilung question

[Yves]

Hi,
I see the terms Batalion / Abteilung used rather indifferently on this forum, however they had different meanings.

As far as I know an Abteilung was an independent unit of batalion size or smaller. A batalion was part of a regiment and not an independant unit.
For exemple 501. schwere Panzer Abteilung, independant unit, 1/27 panzer regiment would be 1st batalion 27th panzer regiment not an independant unit (don't know if that unit actually existed)
501 panzer batalion would mean the unit was part of a regiment, that would not be correct.

Were there however cases of independant Batalions, not Abteilungen, not part of a regiment?

The Germans sometimes used the term abteilung for independant detachments from a single regiment, smaller than batalion size, at least in 1870......... Those were used during sieges or reconnaissance. However, I do not know if this practice was still in use during WWII.

Lastly I do not know if regiments such as artillery had Abteilungen rather Batalions in their organization.....

So I am somewhat confused, and the fact that the terms are not always used properly does not help.

Does anyone have solid information on this topic?

Thanks for your help.

Yves.

[Stefan]

The use of the designation "Bataillon" or "Abteilung" depended on the branch of service. It was "Bataillon" for Infantry and Pioniere, but "Abteilung" for nearly all other troops (Artillery, Cavalry, Panzer, Nachrichten, Medical etc.) For flying units of the Luftwaffe, the designation was "Gruppe". In the Bundeswehr, the term "Bataillon" is used for all branches of the Heer.

[Frederick L Clemens]

I see the terms Batalion / Abteilung used rather indifferently on this forum, however they had different meanings.
As far as I know an Abteilung was an independent unit of batalion size or smaller. A batalion was part of a regiment and not an independant unit.
For exemple 501. schwere Panzer Abteilung, independant unit, 1/27 .

Anyone who tries to tell you that there was a significant difference between the use of Abteilung versus Bataillon is fundamentally wrong. Unfortunately, it is characteristic of "beginners" in the field of German military history that they think there is something magical about Abteilung. There isn't...Abteilung is a term just like any other and its meaning can change with usage.
Abteilung literally equates to the English "department" - Ab equals de, teilung equals partment. It means the detachment of a smaller item from the larger whole. With such a generic meaning, it is easy to see how Abteilung can be used in a hundred different ways, just as department is in English...Department of Defense (govt), lingerie department (commercial), physics department (educ), Northwest Department (geographical), etc.
In the Wehrmacht, Abteilung was used in at least five ways -
1) Panzer, Nachrichten, etc Abteilung - tank, signal, etc battalion as alternate term for Bataillon or Schwadron depending on branch tradition(organic as well as indep)
2) Vorausabteilung - advance detachment, usually battalion strength mix of fast units
3) Korpsabteilung - corps-level grouping of division remnants
4) Armeeabteilung - army-size grouping of forces
5) Abteilung P 3 - bureau within higher headquarters

In the end, you need to be sensitive to the context in which the word is used and to correctly translate it, you need to know the equivalent in our army's usage - forget the dictionary meaning.

[Frederick L Clemens]

Just to follow-up on your question of Abteilung versus Bataillon and whether there was a distinction for organic versus independent units - the answer is no. Both Abteilung and Bataillon can be encountered in each mode:
Panzer -
I.Abteilung/Panzer-Regiment 35 (organic)
schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 (independent)
Infanterie -
II.Bataillon/Infanterie-Regiment 517 (organic)
Grenadier-Bataillon zbV 928 (independent)

Also, please don't read my previous answer to mean that Abteilung and Bataillon were interchangeable in use for official unit designations. They are equivalent designations for battalion-sized units, not interchangeable. Do be aware that even in official records as well as in vet accounts, errors along this line will show up from time to time, for example, someone might refer to a Wehrmacht Panzer-Abteilung as a Panzer-Bataillon - not big deal, it's just a mistake...but I wouldn't buy any award documents that said that! (hee, hee)

[Gerhard]

My unit SS Batterie 500 was part of division Nordhausen. When div. Nordhausen disintegrated we were renamed SS Wefer Abteilung 500, rearmed with 15 cm nebel werfers, a completely independent unit giving support where ever needed.
Does this explain it ?
Gerhard

[Frederick L Clemens]

My unit SS Batterie 500 was part of division Nordhausen. When div. Nordhausen disintegrated we were renamed SS Wefer Abteilung 500, rearmed with 15 cm nebel werfers, a completely independent unit giving support where ever needed.
Does this explain it ?
Gerhard

I think you are confusing the issue, Gerhard.
Your rocket launcher unit went from a Batterie (battery) to an Abteilung (battalion). That is a normal progression and designation for the expansion of an artillery branch unit. The use of Abteilung has nothing to to do with whether your unit was organic to a division or independent. Perhaps you are confused by the possible fact that your unit was not actually increased in size when it made the change. That can happen when a unit is upgraded on paper but the actual upgrade is never achieved, or if a renaming was made to give the impression of a more powerful unit, as happened often in late war.

[Gerhard]

In the East I was a Kanonier with a batterie of towed 88s. In the West I was a Kradmelder with a batterie consisting of 3 launching groups, supply and technical group and several 20 mm Vierling and 37 mm Zwilling cannons. While with the Nordhausen Division we were a batterie, when we left the Division and re-equipped we were renamed Werfer Abteilung 500. Our manning did not change only our name, equipment and orders.
I guess I still can't tell the difference between batterie and abteilung.
Gerhard