Axis forces deserting to the partisans and chetniks

Enrico Cernuschi · Post by **Enrico Cernuschi** » Tue May 13, 2003 9:08 am

Thank You Klemen,
ther's, anyway, a doubt of mine.
The tanks and the armoured cars in Slovenia were attached to the cavarly Division Eugenio di Savoia, which joined the Germans and, then, the RSI.
The presence of one or more 149 mm howitzers confirm, then, the activity of a Raggruppamento di Corpo d'armata, which was included in the mobile Raggruppamento celere based upon Eugenio di Savoia once again.
If the encounters at Turjiak Castle and Grcarice were not by Isonzo div. elements but by the Raggruppamento mobile ones, the picture would be quite different. No more a partisan action (and where went, after the encounters, the Italian elements and their heavy weapons?) but a communist-fascist enterprise, just according the famous Tito offer made to Germans and Italians in June 1943 by Stalin's orders to cohoperate with his men against any Anglo-Saxon invasion of former Yugoslavian lands (Walter Hagen, Die Geheime Front, 1951, chapter III).
About the Slovenian indipendence movements I believed the Germans had favoured them after the Italian armistice following Odilo Globocnik (an infamous SS general of Slovene origin and Austrian former nationality) policy of Divide and impera in the Adriad. Kustenland. The same existence of two national Slovene shields on the left arm (a red Illiryan galley for the Slovene national Security Corps and a White Eagle for the slovene Home Defence Force, both with national field cap cockades since mid 1944 seems to confirm that there was "something"; according these fact the idea to let pay for all the Slovene who believed still ih the Serbian Kingdom in Sept. 1943 (and in a British Landing) was not a bad bargain for all the various parties: less one, at least.
Bye EC

apostolos papageorgiou · Thu May 15, 2003 9:42 am

My contribution to the discussion is the latest reference I know which
describes the desertion of "Russians" (Turkmenians) enlisted in the Wermacht to
join the Greek partizans of ELAS. It is found in the book :

H.F. Meyer "Von Wien nach Kalavryta. Die blutige Spur der 117.Jaeger -Division durch Serbien und Griechenland. Mannheim und Moenesee:
BIBLIOPOLIS ( [email protected] ) ISBN 3-933925-22-3
also visit the web pages http://www.hfmeyer.com and http://www.bibliopolis.com

sid guttridge · Post by **sid guttridge** » Thu May 15, 2003 11:12 am

Hi Apostolos,

You remind me that the British mission in Albania was so suspicious of the reliability of Albanians of all political outlooks that they engineered the defection of a company of Turkomans to act as their personal bodyguard.

The British team was later withdrawn. Does anyone know what happened to their Turkomans?

Cheers,

Sid.

KlemenL · Post by **KlemenL** » Thu May 15, 2003 5:24 pm

The tanks and the armoured cars in Slovenia were attached to the cavarly Division Eugenio di Savoia, which joined the Germans and, then, the RSI. The presence of one or more 149 mm howitzers confirm, then, the activity of a Raggruppamento di Corpo d'armata, which was included in the mobile Raggruppamento celere based upon Eugenio di Savoia once again.

I don't know about Mobile Group, but once again, almost all artillery of the "Isonzo" Division was delivered to the partisans, probably also with some Italian personnel.

About the Slovenian indipendence movements I believed the Germans had favoured them after the Italian armistice following Odilo Globocnik (an infamous SS general of Slovene origin and Austrian former nationality) policy of Divide and impera in the Adriad. Kustenland.

Don't be ridiculous. Globocnik nor the Germans never favorized Slovene independence. I mean co'mon what independence! Slovenia was divided in three parts in late 1943 and there was never any talk about any independence at all, nor among the Slovenes and certainly less among the Germans. What the Germans did do is that in the Kuestenland Area they tend to rely more on native Slovene anti-communist military formations than on the native RSI units, which the Germans did not consider (or thrust) much of a value, with some bright exceptions of course. And if you try to incline that the fact, that Globocnik's father was a former germanized Slovene cavalry officer before WWI, used to affect on Globocnik's policy towards the Slovenes, is mildly to say square ridiculous. For one, Globocnik never declared himself for a Slovene. In fact, I don't even know if he spoke Slovene fluently, if at all.

(a red Illiryan galley for the Slovene national Security Corps and a White Eagle for the slovene Home Defence Force

To be franklly here I have not a faintest idea why the Germans used the Red Illryan galley, but to my knowledge this is not a Slovene symbol of any kind of any provinces. The Black (not White) Eagle of the Slovene Home Defence on the other hand was the symbol of Krain Province until 1918.

both with national field cap cockades since mid 1944 seems to confirm that there was "something"

An auxuliary police formation, officially attached to the SS-Polizei. The Laibach Province enjoyed a little autonomy (like Slovene lnguage being one of the official languages), but this was pretty much all. It was not until May 1945 when the Slovene Landwehr proclaimed itself for a Slovene National Army, what had greatly upset Roesener.

You remind me that the British mission in Albania was so suspicious of the reliability of Albanians of all political outlooks that they engineered the defection of a company of Turkomans to act as their personal bodyguard.

HeHe... You may always expect some great stories about Albanian underground resistance in WWII.

What has happened to them? Mostly they were repatriated back to USSR after the war like all Soviet partisan units in Yugoslavia. I doubt they were an exception.

Please refresh my memory: Did the 117.Jaeger -Division retreated all the way to the Austrian border?

Lp,

Klemen

Kocjo · Post by **Kocjo** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:44 am

KlemenL wrote:Please refresh my memory: Did the 117.Jaeger -Division retreated all the way to the Austrian border?

Was this Div. in Slovenia???????? 104. and 114. were here.

Kocjo · Post by **Kocjo** » Tue Jun 17, 2003 10:48 am

On 17.11.'44 4 SS-soldiers escaped from prison from Ljubljana to Partisan forces near Kresnice. They were:
- Konrad Votsch: born 10.7.'25 (Singerdach);
- Hans Oostalm: 5.11.'25 (Tart, Estonia);
- Egon Krause: 31.5.'26 (Gdansk/Danzig);
- Paul Berzbach: 24.9.'26 (Köln).

They reported to command of city Vace and on 18.11.'44 were transfered to 7. Corps of Yugoslav army

apostolos papageorgiou · Tue Jun 17, 2003 3:50 pm

For a clear picture about the retreat of the 117. Jaeger-Division
read the book ( I mentioned previously) of H.F. Meyer "Von
Wien nach Kalavryta" pages 439 through 459.
Anyway during the winter 1944 - 1945 they were moving
around Samac/ Brcko , Gradacac north of Tuzla. Only in
April they managed to come to Austria following the
road through Kapfenberg, Krieglach, Hirscwang, Scwarzau
i. Gebirge, Lilienfeld, Kirchberg, etc. until they fell into the
hands of the Americans after by big fortune escaped the Red Army.