What would have happened when the Invasion of Normandy failed? Would they try another time somewhere else? Or rely on the Italian front, in that case, France would have been liberated at all.
What would have happened when Operation Market Garden succeeded? Would the war be over at Christmas 1944? Would the Allies have captured Berlin?
What would have happened when the raid at Dieppe succeeded? Would the Americans and Commonwealth troops expanded the bridgehead and push through to Germany early 1943??
A few thoughts...
Moderator: Commissar D, the Evil
Dieppe could never have been taken then, it was far too heavily defended and the Brits knew it. They couldn't hold a beachhead with 250,000 troops how were they going to do it with 4000 surrounded by the best of the German army.
However if Normandy had failed, that would have been extremely bad for the Allies. Aside from losing the invasion force, a second invasion on the French coast would have even been more difficult because the Axis would have been alerted. Defenses would have been intensified, reserves brought up, U-boats more aggressive etc.
Invasion from Marsaille peut-être?
However if Normandy had failed, that would have been extremely bad for the Allies. Aside from losing the invasion force, a second invasion on the French coast would have even been more difficult because the Axis would have been alerted. Defenses would have been intensified, reserves brought up, U-boats more aggressive etc.
Invasion from Marsaille peut-être?
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LiL_Puma
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Ummm... Diepe was a raid intended to destroy a selected target, then have the troops withdraw afterwards. It wasn't a full scale invasion of France.
If Invasion Normandy failed, I'm sure Stalin would be pissed. He wanted the Allies to open a second front on Germany since 1941, and seeing how they failed, he'd probably have increasingly indifferent feelings towards them.
I think I wrote a what-if situation about Market Garden succeding in another one of my posts in this forum. To summarize it, the Allies capture Berlin and the Germans surrender before Christmas 1944. The Allies then occupt Eastern and Central Europe. As a result, there is no Iron Curtain or Berlin Wall. Stalin though is pissed for not getting any reward for fighting the war against the Axis, and the Cold War starts much quicker, with more ferocity.
- LiL_Puma
If Invasion Normandy failed, I'm sure Stalin would be pissed. He wanted the Allies to open a second front on Germany since 1941, and seeing how they failed, he'd probably have increasingly indifferent feelings towards them.
I think I wrote a what-if situation about Market Garden succeding in another one of my posts in this forum. To summarize it, the Allies capture Berlin and the Germans surrender before Christmas 1944. The Allies then occupt Eastern and Central Europe. As a result, there is no Iron Curtain or Berlin Wall. Stalin though is pissed for not getting any reward for fighting the war against the Axis, and the Cold War starts much quicker, with more ferocity.
- LiL_Puma
Success at Dieppe would have seen the allies withdrawn by nightfall. There is no second front until 1944.
Defeat at Normandy would have been a major disaster for the allies. Thousands of troops lost and years of preparation all for naught. I doubt they would have been able to reform for another invasion for at least 6 months.
Defeat at Normandy would have been a major disaster for the allies. Thousands of troops lost and years of preparation all for naught. I doubt they would have been able to reform for another invasion for at least 6 months.
Failed Normandy
Bruno, I believe you passed by a very important matter:
If Normandy had failed, then, in 1946 perhaps, Europe would have become another testing ground for the A-Bomb, as it was then called. Germany had NO defense against such a weapon - nobody had!
Any thoughts about my trend of reasoning? Joscha
If Normandy had failed, then, in 1946 perhaps, Europe would have become another testing ground for the A-Bomb, as it was then called. Germany had NO defense against such a weapon - nobody had!
Any thoughts about my trend of reasoning? Joscha
I agree, most likely Berlin would be a radioactive crater right now. A failure at Normandy would have led to crushing morale problems, and would have seen at least another four to six months required to make up supply and materiel losses. Plus, all the disinformation would have been completely worthless, the OKW and Hitler would have been convinced of the threat to the West, and a build up program would probably be in place. In the face of that, the only possibilities I see for the Allies would be to secure Mediterrainian approaches, and try for a second Overlord style landing somewhere on the South French coast. A further extension of the supply lines across the face of France, with the U-boats out and about, the push north would have been a much harder effort, and possibly would have bogged down. The bomb could have been a way out of that for SHAEF, and they weren't adverse to destroying cities to make a point.
In the battle between good and evil, evil usually has more fun.
a bomb
Joscha, never thought about the A-Bomb. Can you actually concieve of it being used in Europe. Personally I think the Americans used it in Japan because- 1)it was so far removed. 2) they had suffered some many causalties in Europe and the Pacific they didn't want to have the wholesale losses trying to invade Japan. 3) to stop the Russian advance in Europe by demonstrating their powerful weapon.
So if Normandy had failed: could the Americans have dropped the bomb on Japan and then just threatened the Germans to 'Peaces". Or would Germany perhaps had time to develope their own A- bomb, perhaps sending it on a V2 to Moscow as a demonstration and then threatening London. I don't how far along they were.
So if Normandy had failed: could the Americans have dropped the bomb on Japan and then just threatened the Germans to 'Peaces". Or would Germany perhaps had time to develope their own A- bomb, perhaps sending it on a V2 to Moscow as a demonstration and then threatening London. I don't how far along they were.