17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

German SS and Waffen-SS 1923-1945.
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17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:46 pm

Here is the start of the graduate list from the SS-Junkerschule Prag. The grandfather of a Feldgrau member was among these graduates and became an SS-Untersturmführer in the Flak specialty.
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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:48 pm

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:49 pm

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by Jan » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:55 pm

Hi
Is this the de Bruyne from Kradschützen-Zug/ Pz.Jg.Abt.27????

Jan

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:03 pm

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by Stormman » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:12 am

Jan wrote:Hi
Is this the de Bruyne from Kradschützen-Zug/ Pz.Jg.Abt.27????

Jan
Probably not.

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:54 pm

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:47 am

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:14 pm

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by haen2 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:54 pm

Thank you John,
And . . . .kudo's for all the work and effort you put into it ! :up:

Somewher there should be two Neijenhuises in all those lists, but I have not been able to find them yet; they were relatives.
Also somewhere there should be an Evert Teunissen who was an Oscha in the Waffen SS, and Obersturmführer in the Algemeine SS, and later SUPPOSEDLY was promoted to Obersturmfuhrer in the Waffen SS. He was at the Russian front, and walked bent over from all the decorations (lol) he got. He was a married in-Uncle, who was a volunteer in Spain AGAINST Franco; lost his dutch citizenship, and just about immediately enlisted in the SS after the Germans invaded Holland.
Not really important anymore, but just curious.
Cheers !
Hugo N.
joined forum early spring of 2002 as Haen- posts: legio :-)

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by John P. Moore » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:42 pm

Here is the page where Gerhard Schlichting appears among the Flak officers, the relative óf a Feldgrau member.
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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by smangs » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:25 pm

Hi,

first of all, I would like to thank John Moore very much for his patience and help while I researched my grandfather's service in the Waffen-SS. For those who are interested, I am just going to write a little summary here with a couple of pictures of my grandfather Gerhard Schlichting.

I never even knew that my grandfather served in the Waffen-SS until only a few years ago. He never really talked about the war very much and the war was just not discussed often within our family. The last time I visited Germany, August 2006, I took the opportunity to interview both my grandparents about their time in the war. At this point, I already found out about my grandfather having served in the Waffen-SS and therefore asked him directly to tell me about it. A lot of the details in this summary took quite a bit of research and help from various members from this community. I am very fortunate to have this information because my grandfather passed away only a couple of years after I had interviewed him.

Gerhard Schlichting, born on July 2nd, 1924, volunteered for service in the Waffen-SS in the Fall of 1942 and is assumed to have attended basic training on November 9th, 1942 with the SS-Totenkopf-Infanterie, Panzer-Grenadier-Ersatz-Bataillon III in Bruenn, East Prussia.

After completing basic training, he was transferred to the II./SS-Flak-Abt./Kommando-Stab “RFSS” in Wehlau. This must have happened in March 1943 because according to Stoeber, Flak der Waffen-SS this unit was created at that time and filled with recruits from Bruenn. During the interview, my grandfather mentioned that he participated in anti-partisan operations in the Ukraine during that time but said he only participated in a single combat engagement with partisans. However, he does remember being transferred to Berlin at one time to protect the Fuehrerbunker. This fits with research that shows that a single 88-Flak-Unit from the II./SS-Flak-Abt was transferred there.

Around April 1944, I don't have exact information about this, he must have attended a Fuehrerbewerberlehrgang and then attended the 16. KJL Braunschweig (held in Posen/Praq) from July 15th-December 15th 1944. After completing this training he was promoted to Standartenoberjunker d. Reserve and went on leave for two weeks. During this time, the photo below must have been taken, before he went on with the Oberjunkerlehrgang. Interestingly, my grandfather mentioned that during that time, he also had to work the Flak guns stationed in Praq because the American bombers used Praq as a navigational point. He told me that it was pretty easy duty because the Flak munitions explode at 10500m and the Americans were flying at 12000m, so they were just relaxing in the sun while everyone else had to go into the bomb shelters.

He did not continue with the Oberjunkerlehrgang in Praq since Flak and Artillery trainees went to the 16./17. Oberjunkerlehrgang with the Flak-Art. Schule I on Rerik from January 2nd to March 17th, 1945. I don't have any details but my grandfather said that this actually consisted of three separate 1 month long training courses. The Messoffizier Messlehrgang was held in Schongau, Bavaria. Then the Batterieoffizierlehrgang in Rerik and finally the 3rd Lehrgang (don't have a title or location) somewhere on the western coast of Denmark.

After completing all his officer training he was ordered to the Ersatztruppenteil in Freiman-Munich, where he was supposed to get the orders to his final field unit (Feldtruppenteil). However, he received only orders to report to the SS Fuehrungshauptamt in Berlin. Since any direct route to Berlin was already cut off by American troops, he had to go further further east. On his travels he witnessed the bombardment of Dresden (probably the one on April 17th) and when he finally got to Berlin, the city was engaged on block to block fighting with the Russians. In Berlin, he learned that the SS Fuehrungshauptamt was moved to the Timmendorfer Strand. He finally reached the SS FHA and received his promotion papers to Untersturmfuehrer. His name was mentioned in a German language article by one of his comrades, which I have pasted here untranslated:

Hans-Oscar Haase, der von der SS-Flak-Abteilung 5 ”Wiking” kommend, den 16.FB-Lehrgang v. 1.5. – 11.7.44 beim SS-PzGrenAuE-Btl 5 Ellwangen absolvierte hatte, schrieb: “ Als Kriegsfreiwilliger wurde ich am 21.Mai 1941 zur 2./Flak-Abt.Kdo.Stab RFSS nach Breslau eingezogen. Einer infanteristischen Ausbildung schloß sich eine Ausbildung an der 2 cm Flak 30 an. Bei Aufstellung der 1.SS-Infanterie-Brigade (mot) kam ich zum SS-Regiment 10 (14.Kompanie , Kompanieführer war SS-Untersturmführer Brock). Unser Einsatz im Rußlandfeldzug begann im Oktober 1941. Kampfgebiet war für uns der Mittelabschnitt. Art des Einsatzes mit der „2-Zentimeter“ war im Wesentlichen der Erdkampf.
Nach viermaliger Verwundung wurde ich als Unterscharführer und Führerbewerber im April 1944 zum Vorbereitungslehrgang für die Führerschule nach Ellwangen/Jagst kommandiert. Es folgte nach bestandenem Lehrgang, die Kommandierung zum 17.Kriegsjunkerlehrgang an die Junkerschule „Braunschweig in Posen-Treskau“ und nach der Zwischenprüfung (Bef.z.St.Ju. am 1.10.1944, der Verf.) an die nach Prag-Dewitz. Nach der Beförderung zum Standartenoberjunker im Dezember 1944 waren vor einer Beförderung zum SS-Untersturmführer noch Lehrgänge an Flak-Artillerieschulen der Luftwaffe zu absolvieren.
Nach Beendigung der Lehrgänge meldeten wir uns bei unserem Ersatztruppenteil in München-Freimarn, dort sollten wir unsere Versetzungen zu den Feldtruppenteilen erhalten. Zusammen mit zwei Kameraden, SS-Standartenoberjunker Gerd Schlichtig (actually Schlichting!) und Karl Fries, erhielten wir den Auftrag, uns beim SS-FHA Timmendorfer Strand/Ost zu melden.
Nach abwechselungsreicher Fahrt, unter Benutzung unterschiedlicher Fahrgelegenheiten, auch “per pedes“, durch bombenbeschädigte Städte, erreichten wir unseren Zielort. Nach unserer Meldung dort erhielten wir unserer Beförderungsurkunden zum SS-Untersturmführer. Ausgehändigt wurden uns diese durch einen höheren SS-Führer; dessen Namen war Schauf oder Schaub, nach meiner Erinnerung. Der Bedeutung des Tages angemessen, wurden wir vom Vorgesetzten zum gemeinsamen Mittagessen eingeladen.
Am Folgetag, es war wohl Mitte April 1945, bekamen wir unsere Versetzungsverfügungen. Meine lautete zu „Splitterteile“ 1./SS-Panzer-Regiment 5 Wiking … im Raum Gadebusch/Mecklenburg. …“(Unser Wikingruf, 12/2007, S.134)

Finally, my grandfather was taken POW by American troop on the east side of the Ratzeburger See and put into a fully equipped German base for holding (Reekaserne). Hearing about the treatment of Waffen-SS members, he had his blood type tattoo removed and they issued themselves new Soldbuecher (basically ID cards) that showed him being a Leutnant in the Wehrmacht. As a POW he worked for the British until he was released and then went to work for the Deutsche Bundesbahn.

I know that this is more of a general timeline without much detailed information about my grandfather's wartime experience but it looks like he was very lucky to mostly attend officer training courses from April 1944 until the end of the war. I was actually amazed at how much time was still dedicated to train officers while the war was already being lost and I figured that every able men would be send to the front-lines.

(I will edit this post with some pictures within the next few days).

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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by Tom Houlihan » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:55 am

This is fascinating information. It's great that you were able to finally get your Opa to talk about his experiences. Being able to research the history behind his memories must have been exciting and fun. I appreciate what you've laid out here, as it shows what the men were going through.

I understand your surprise at the continuation of all the training, even at that point in the war. However, military logic is an unusual animal. Even when the "writing is on the wall," so to speak, the system will continue to work as designed until it comes to a complete halt.
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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by haen2 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:27 pm

I think that continuous training up to the last weeks was not all that uncommon.
I remember a "private" discussion with my C.O., Hptstf. Ziegler, after a successful melder run during the last weeks of the war.
Although I was part of a "panzerjagdkommando", under Ustuf Battist (Pattist), he (Ziegler0 would requisition me as a "melder" for hard to get through, and/or special runs. At one point he and I had a discussion about the war situation,which included that "unless a small or big wonder occured", we only would last a short time more, but . . . because we took an oath, we would hold fast until the end. He then told me (when I received my field promotion to Uscha), that if there would be '"ust a little more time", he would still have send me to a Führerschule. (I still wonder how he would have made that happen, as we were completely closed in by allied troops, and Germany proper was just about completely run over).
My point is, the fact that this subject even would come up, when both of us knew that we already had lost, big time.
Thus in HIS mind the up to the end training, must have been part of normal procedures.
If I remember it well, Rudi W. was in a similar postition, and ended the war as a Führer anwerter (Standarten Oberjunker); correct me if i am wrong Rudi.
Another thing, actually funny in retrospect, was, that after A.H. had died, and we were supposed to be subject to regular Wehrmacht rules and drills, we actually "practiced" like recruits, during a Waffenruhe (cease fire break) saluting regular army style, on an abandoned part of a road, at Veenendaal-de Klomp. If there had been any civilians, they certainly would have gotten a chuckle out of this.
There is one point in the report of Grampa, that strikes me a little as "iffy" . "They had their tattoo removed and issued themselves new Soldbücher" Removing the Blutgruppe tattoo was not that easy and would leave a wound, subject to further scrutiny, and interogation.
I know, because mine was cut out by my physician after I was released from the camps, and took some time to heal, but still left a well visible scar. (even visible some 60 years later). Also new Soldbücher were not lying around for every man to pick up, and Heer- as well as other parts of the Wehrmacht were often not all that cooperative with Waffen SS personell when the war was lost.
BUT, it could have happened that way. Just a little questionmark in my mind. One could sometimes "luck out".
Personally I received from the NIOD (Dutch war documentation office) TWO copies of my Stammkarte, each slightly different from the other, ONE with vague erasing marks still visible as to actions and promotions, and the other with none of them at all.
I wonder if my C.O. wanted to make me look "less guilty (sic)" and had a new one made up. There were even still some Schreibstuben (unit offices) functioning inside the Harskamp, detention camp, issuing I.D. papers etc, that were supposedly lost in action, running for several weeks after the capitulation.
Interesting thread, !!! Good luck with your research.
H.N.
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Re: 17 Kriegs-Junker-Lehrgang Prag Graduate List Dec 11, 1944

Post by Rudi Welz » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:43 am

Hallo,
dear comrad Haen, you are so right!
"High up" must have been some trouble during the last weeks of spring 1945. Most divisions had lost a lot of men during
the last months and the "Kampfgruppen" came up. In this units fought soldiers of all divisions. I was a member of the
Kampfgruppe "NORD" and our chiefs were HStuf Zimmermann and later UStuf Mayer.
I decided in 1943 to become a officer (Führer) der Waffen-SS, because I wanted to join the musicbands of the Waffen-SS.
I had better conditions, because I was a former HJ-Stammführer and had been in 3 "Wehrertüchtigungslagern" der Waf-
fen-SS ( Apeldoorn/NL, Alpe Rauz/Tirol and Eipel/Nachod in the Tschechei). That's why I could join the army as a so called
SS-Führeranwärter. We were supposed to join the SS-Junkerschule in Prag in April 1945, but that was cancelled and we got
in Ellwangen/Jagst the message, that instead of joining the Junkerschule we recieved the fieldpromotion to SS-Junkers.
I don`t know why, because normaly we had to become Standartenjunker. The date of the promotion was the 20.April 1945,
Adolf Hitlers birthday.
Rudi

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