Any OB information on this late war formation?
Thanks,
AHK
24.Armee
Moderator: Tom Houlihan
Re: 24.Armee
Hello AHK !
Here is the Kriegsgliederung as of Dec., 5th, 1944 :
Staff A.O.K. 24, Gen. d. Inf. Schmidt
- Rgt. K/V (Oberstlt. Höflinger) with :
-- Stabskompanie
-- Nachrichtenzug [signal-platoon]
-- Pionierzug [engineer-platoon] ( 6 light MG )
-- Radfahrzug [bicycle-platoon] ( 4 light MG )
-- Panzerjägerzug [Pak-platoon] ( 3 light pak, 1 medium pak, 1 heavy pak, 2 light MG )
-- Inf.Geschützzug [light infantry-howitzer-platoon] ( 2 light inf.howitzer, 1 light MG )
-- I. Btl. (Hptm. Hurst)
--- 4 companies, 1.-3. 16 light MGs each, 4. with 8 heavy MGs and 2 (?) medium mortars (8cm ?), [its hard to read]
-- Hochrheinkdo. 405 [hard to read, but I think so]
--- 2 companies each with 2 light MGs, 1 medium Mortar, and in the 1st company one additional heavy MG
--- 4./Ldssch. ... [this Landesschützen-unit was heavily smashed by ... a hole puncher
, it might have
had 3 light MGs, nothing more to decipher, the hole puncher achieved a complete breakthrough
!]
Then follow 4 Regimental staffs, without subordinated units :
8 / V : Major Knittel
10 / V : Oberst ?? (could be Sand ?)
9 / V : Major W ...
11 / V : Oberst G[all...] or G[oll...] (name unclear, except the G]
Then follows : 1/2 Pol.Btl. (2 companies, without heavy weapons)
[This unit is marked with dotted lines, I'm not sure what this refers to in this context,
maybe it's not officially authorized or to be incorporated later?!]
Then follows : Stab Höherer Pionier Führer 5 Oberst Stein [probably the commander of all engineer units in WK V]
with two units which should be titled
- Pionier-Sonderstab 68 (Oberstlt. Möbius) and a second Pionier-Sonderstab (Oberstlt. Mehl [Name unsure]).
[It's number might be 69 ?? /from comparison with Tessin]
- a third Pionier-Sonderstab is marked again with dotted lines
Then there are 3 engineer- / Bau-companies :
- Pi.Kp. B/V
- Bau Pi. Ausbildungs-Kp. 5 [training-unit]
- Bau Pi. Ausbildungs-Kp. 13 [training-unit]
And finally there are 2 units named :
Einweisungs-Abteilung 1113 and 1114
[a third one of the same type again only dotted]
The source of this Gliederung is a NARA file, kindly given to me by MadDog (thanks again
).
I tried to read the document to my best and indicated where its illegible.
If you have any questions or if I forgot to translate something, please let me know.
At least some of these units (namely those ending in /V ) have their origin in a Gneisenau callup of WK V.
I'm very interested in those Alarmunits formed by the Ersatzheer. If anybody knows more on them or could point where to
find it (e.g. on strength, equipment, anything) I would really appreciate any kind of info in excess of Tessin and Keilig !
I hope this helps,
best regards,
hero.
Here is the Kriegsgliederung as of Dec., 5th, 1944 :
Staff A.O.K. 24, Gen. d. Inf. Schmidt
- Rgt. K/V (Oberstlt. Höflinger) with :
-- Stabskompanie
-- Nachrichtenzug [signal-platoon]
-- Pionierzug [engineer-platoon] ( 6 light MG )
-- Radfahrzug [bicycle-platoon] ( 4 light MG )
-- Panzerjägerzug [Pak-platoon] ( 3 light pak, 1 medium pak, 1 heavy pak, 2 light MG )
-- Inf.Geschützzug [light infantry-howitzer-platoon] ( 2 light inf.howitzer, 1 light MG )
-- I. Btl. (Hptm. Hurst)
--- 4 companies, 1.-3. 16 light MGs each, 4. with 8 heavy MGs and 2 (?) medium mortars (8cm ?), [its hard to read]
-- Hochrheinkdo. 405 [hard to read, but I think so]
--- 2 companies each with 2 light MGs, 1 medium Mortar, and in the 1st company one additional heavy MG
--- 4./Ldssch. ... [this Landesschützen-unit was heavily smashed by ... a hole puncher
, it might have had 3 light MGs, nothing more to decipher, the hole puncher achieved a complete breakthrough
!]Then follow 4 Regimental staffs, without subordinated units :
8 / V : Major Knittel
10 / V : Oberst ?? (could be Sand ?)
9 / V : Major W ...
11 / V : Oberst G[all...] or G[oll...] (name unclear, except the G]
Then follows : 1/2 Pol.Btl. (2 companies, without heavy weapons)
[This unit is marked with dotted lines, I'm not sure what this refers to in this context,
maybe it's not officially authorized or to be incorporated later?!]
Then follows : Stab Höherer Pionier Führer 5 Oberst Stein [probably the commander of all engineer units in WK V]
with two units which should be titled
- Pionier-Sonderstab 68 (Oberstlt. Möbius) and a second Pionier-Sonderstab (Oberstlt. Mehl [Name unsure]).
[It's number might be 69 ?? /from comparison with Tessin]
- a third Pionier-Sonderstab is marked again with dotted lines
Then there are 3 engineer- / Bau-companies :
- Pi.Kp. B/V
- Bau Pi. Ausbildungs-Kp. 5 [training-unit]
- Bau Pi. Ausbildungs-Kp. 13 [training-unit]
And finally there are 2 units named :
Einweisungs-Abteilung 1113 and 1114
[a third one of the same type again only dotted]
The source of this Gliederung is a NARA file, kindly given to me by MadDog (thanks again
).I tried to read the document to my best and indicated where its illegible.
If you have any questions or if I forgot to translate something, please let me know.
At least some of these units (namely those ending in /V ) have their origin in a Gneisenau callup of WK V.
I'm very interested in those Alarmunits formed by the Ersatzheer. If anybody knows more on them or could point where to
find it (e.g. on strength, equipment, anything) I would really appreciate any kind of info in excess of Tessin and Keilig !
I hope this helps,
best regards,
hero.
Re: 24.Armee
Thanks for info. Am I to understand there are no divisional size units?
AHK
AHK
Re: 24.Armee
No divisional sized units. The 24th "army" was stationed on the Swiss border; if I recall correctly and wasnt really a combat formation.
There is also a single FMS document on this unit: FMS-B-102/103.
Mad Dog
There is also a single FMS document on this unit: FMS-B-102/103.
Mad Dog
Re: 24.Armee
Hello AHK !
Yes, that is correct, no divisional sized unit !
From your question, I understand that you didn't know, what size to expect from this unit...
It was the same to me, when I first came across it, while researching some of those Gneisenau-units.
A whole army one has never heard about before ?!
And then it turned out to be one of those "fake-units", barely the size of a division in total.
Its main task seems to have been securing and organizing the fortification of the boarder in
the area along the rhine-river.
In general, it seems to be a characteristic of those ad-hoc units of WK V at that that time, that
their unit designations are one or even two levels higher, than what they deserve, probably to disguise the enemy
(or just to give oneself the "moral boost", that there is another "army" in reserve ?!).
Best regards,
hero.
Yes, that is correct, no divisional sized unit !
From your question, I understand that you didn't know, what size to expect from this unit...
It was the same to me, when I first came across it, while researching some of those Gneisenau-units.
A whole army one has never heard about before ?!
And then it turned out to be one of those "fake-units", barely the size of a division in total.
Its main task seems to have been securing and organizing the fortification of the boarder in
the area along the rhine-river.
In general, it seems to be a characteristic of those ad-hoc units of WK V at that that time, that
their unit designations are one or even two levels higher, than what they deserve, probably to disguise the enemy
(or just to give oneself the "moral boost", that there is another "army" in reserve ?!).
Best regards,
hero.
