I'm building up, mostly, the ToE of the 2.SS-Pz.Korps (LAH; DR; T); 48.Pz.Korps (GD); the independent armored units and the units with unusual equipment during Operation Zitadelle. (Strength and Operational).
So far, I gathered the following information, about "The Armour of II.SS-Panzer-Korps", that are common with the most sources:
(LAH shows his organization and in the Das Reich and Totenkopf, only appears the differences between them, the rest is almost the same).
Is that info, correct?
I know it lacks lots of pieces, I'm trying to complete this puzzle...
Rui Esteves
"In the fog of History, there is sometimes a Light" - Rui Esteves
With the recapture of Kharkov in March of 1943, by II.SS-Panzer Corps, were taken as Beutepanzers, about 50 T-34/76, to Das Reich were given 25, and to Totenkopf, 22 tanks.
Seems that only DR, used them in Kursk. Between 12-20 operational tanks. (What happened to Totenkopf's T-34?)
There is some evidence of T-34 tanks in new III.SS-Pz.Abt / SS-Pz.Rgt . 2 / 2.SS-Panzer Division "Das Reich", but there is also, some information about the use of T-34 in the SS-Panzerjäger Abt. 2. Only seen, photos of the 10.Panzer-Kompanie...
The main reason of the use of T-34 in Pz.Abt of DR, was the losses. And because one his panzer-abteilung were in Germany, to receive the new Panther? ( One of Pz.Abt. of LAH were also back in Germany, at that time?)
Das Reich used also BA-64 armored cars in Russia. It was used in Zitadelle?
(There was, any "special op" with captured Soviet tanks, like Skorzeny's disguised AFV's in the Ardennes offensive?)
T-34 and other captured equipment were also used by other units in Kursk, but there is little info about them...
Rui Esteves
"In the fog of History, there is sometimes a Light" - Rui Esteves
Why don´t you use the original german tactical symbols? It is just a personal oppinion but these NAto symbols are not very suitable.. they don´t really look like "WWII"
Christoph, you are completely correct. However, the NATO-style symbols are much more recognizable for most people. Not very authentic, but more common.
You're both correct, I use this NATO-like tactical symbols, because they are fewer and simple than the German ones, and also to have the same kind of symbols employed, by the Axis and the Allies. Making a easy way to compare the opposing forces in a map and other documents.
In a theater of operations, here is a lot of units, of different sizes and nature, is best to have small symbols, that could be easy to read, with few details.
A map should be easy/simple to read and without confusion to the reader. Or it will loose his functionality.
Best regards,
Rui Esteves
"In the fog of History, there is sometimes a Light" - Rui Esteves
I sympathize with the use of NATO symbols but agree that WW2 era symbols are more authentic. An author could try to educate the reader in this way - it really is a matter of exposure and familiarity. A third option is the use of weapons symbols, especiallty on maps.
Das Reich's T-34 on July 4th of 1943:
18 operational
9 in repair
The image, i used in the beginning of this thread, is just a simple way, i found to show, the information about SS units in Kursk (showing only the main differences between LAH, DR and Totenkopf), that i gathered. And isn't a "official" image-document, that i pretend to full represent any WWII German unit.
It is just less time-consuming, for me, in the matters of graphic design.
Best regards,
Rui Esteves
"In the fog of History, there is sometimes a Light" - Rui Esteves
One of Das Reich's panzer aces was, the Ritterkruz receiver SS-Hauptscharführer Emil Seibold, he commanded one captured T-34 ( Panzerkampfwagen T-34 747(r) ), between July and August of 1943, including the Battle of Kursk, in the 10.Kompanie/III.SS-Panzer Abteilung.
He had 69 kills in the final of WWII, 23 tanks were destroyed in July-August 1943, using the Panzerkampfwagen T-34 747(r).
Best regards,
Rui Esteves
"In the fog of History, there is sometimes a Light" - Rui Esteves
Hi Rui Esteves , Thank for your data. Do you know that all Waffen SS divison had six operational Grille in jUly 1943 ? I only sure Gd had five operational on 30 June 1943
According to K.St.N.1120a - s.I.G.Kp.(Sfl.), 6 Geschützwagen 38 für s.I.G.33/1(Sf.) (Sd.Kfz.138/1), were assigned to the companies of the Panzer-Grenadier-Regiments.
The "Grille" was first used in numbers in combat, during Operation Zitadelle, July 1943:
16 - Pz.Gr.Div. "GD"
12 - SS-Division "LAH"
12 - SS-Division "DR"
I don't have the confirmation if any "Grille" had been allocated in this period, to the SS-Division "Totenkpf".
I have info, about "Grilles", in "LAH", that was "Grilles" only in the 13. Infanterie-Geschütz-Kompanie of SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 2.
Best regards,
Rui Esteves
"In the fog of History, there is sometimes a Light" - Rui Esteves
Other self-propelled artillery, that saw its debut on combat was:
> "Wespe" - Geschützwagen II für le.F.H.18/2(Sf.)
> "Hummel" - Geschützwagen III/IV für s.F.H.18/1(Sf.)
And they were allocated accordingly:
K.St.N.431b - Batterie leichte Feldhaubitze 18/2 (6 Geschütz)(Sfl.) = 6 Geschützwagen II
K.St.N.461b - Batterie schwere Feldhaubitze 18/1 (6 Geschütz)(Sfl.) = 6 Geschützwagen III/IV
They were assigned to Panzer and Panzer Grenadier Divisions:
Self-propelled artillery battalion/Panzer-Division:
2 "Wespe" Batteries (total= 12 "Wespe")
1 "Hummel" Battery (total= 6 "Hummel")
60 "Hummel" were first used in numbers in combat during Operation Zitadelle in 10 Divisions, with the priority to Grossdeutschland Division and the SS-Divisions.
Does anyone have more information about the "Wespe", "Hummel" and "Grille" in Zitadelle?
Best regards,
Rui Esteves
"In the fog of History, there is sometimes a Light" - Rui Esteves
