sources of german collectible uniforms

[august winter]

Hi everyone, as german militaria, especially uniforms gets harder and harder to find, i was wondering...

What in your views is the main source of german uniforms?

what i mean is, pretty much whenever german troops were captured all patches, rank badges etc were ripped off leaving for example a bare tunic.

Subsequently when the prisoners were shipped off to camps they were either given replacement us or british or russian fatigues and their uniforms were probably destroyed/burnt (probably full of holes and covered in lice anyway!). In some cases as i understand it, some prisoners had to make do with the uniforms they were captured in but presumably by the time they were released these would have been threadbare and good for nothing.

So this probably rules out sourcing uniform items from former pows, then there was probably the case that some uniform items were discarded and picked up by souvenir hunters/locals and perhaps put in lofts and forgotten about etc. The other potential sources that i can imagine might be the remains of supply dumps that perhaps are ocassionaly unearthed or maybe even the odd item from the original factories that they were made.

Following on, I would imagine that camo items especially waffen ss would be even more difficult to source and again from what i have gathered things like smocks that would have fitted over tunics would probably been taken from the wearer and dumped whilst the soldier was being checked for any hidden weapons etc - perhaps again the kind of thing a lucky souvenir hunter might have picked up from the battlefield??

anyway, i would suspect that the origin of GENUINE uniform items makes fascinating reading so i hope some of you might have some ideas/tales to tell.

cheers,

august

[Simon H]

Hello August,

Certainly the demand for uniforms by collectors shows no signs of slowing down and there are plenty of individuals who will be more than willing to sell you an "original" German tunic that has never been anywhere near a German soldier let alone been in WW2.

That isn't to say that there are not "sleepers" out there. Despite the banning of Nazi regalia in Germany there are still original uniforms to be found by the top dealers.

As for supply dumps. forget it. Clothing was issued and re-issued and when no good to anyone burn't. Sometimes odd bits of kit do turn up in barns; helmets, blouses, boots can be picked up by farmers and kept (as farmers the world over are great hoarders of things - just in case). French, Belgian farmers are no different.

You also mention POW's having their decorations removed. Some of these POW went to great lengths to save their decorations by stitching them in linings etc, only to sew them back on upon their release to civilisation again.

As with most things you need to research your subject thoroughly before committing hard earned cash to an item.

Happy collecting!

[Paddy Keating]

Hi everyone, as german militaria, especially uniforms gets harder and harder to find, i was wondering...

What in your views is the main source of german uniforms?

what i mean is, pretty much whenever german troops were captured all patches, rank badges etc were ripped off leaving for example a bare tunic.

Subsequently when the prisoners were shipped off to camps they were either given replacement us or british or russian fatigues and their uniforms were probably destroyed/burnt (probably full of holes and covered in lice anyway!). In some cases as i understand it, some prisoners had to make do with the uniforms they were captured in but presumably by the time they were released these would have been threadbare and good for nothing.

Absolutely. However, I have seen stripped Heer and Waffen-SS tunics of M36, M40 and M43 pattern in film costumier stores here in France with the letters "PG" for Prisonnier de Guerre or POW still visible in faded white paint on the backs and fronts. I have also seen a lot of unissued stuff, particularly Luftwaffe flight blouses and pants, France having been a training centre for the Luftwaffe.

So this probably rules out sourcing uniform items from former pows, then there was probably the case that some uniform items were discarded and picked up by souvenir hunters/locals and perhaps put in lofts and forgotten about etc. The other potential sources that i can imagine might be the remains of supply dumps that perhaps are ocassionaly unearthed or maybe even the odd item from the original factories that they were made.

A couple of dozen Fallshirmjäger knee and elbow pad sets came out of a police martial arts training centre a few months ago. The building was near a former FJ school in France. Some years ago, near Dreux, another former Fallschirmschule, an old boy turned up at a village jumble sale with two bales of splinter pattern zip-up FJ jump smocks, a load of gloves and several pairs of new boots.

Following on, I would imagine that camo items especially waffen ss would be even more difficult to source and again from what i have gathered things like smocks that would have fitted over tunics would probably been taken from the wearer and dumped whilst the soldier was being checked for any hidden weapons etc - perhaps again the kind of thing a lucky souvenir hunter might have picked up from the battlefield??

In the past ten years, at least seven Waffen-SS camouflage smocks of various patterns have been found in France. Two reversible Waffen-SS helmet covers have surfaced too, plus an ultra-rare FJ splinter cover. Cammo gear is rare because it didn't have a long life in the field to begin with.

There is still stuff to come out of the woodwork. I know one man with a dozen mint Waffen-SS smocks, for example. These came from the Montauban area in the early 1990s and may have been something to do with the Das Reich division. There is a place in Paris with over fifty mint Heer Waffenrock other ranks' parade tunics in the common arm-of-service colours but without shoulder boards and breast eagles. They are as new.

Anyway, there'll be no bargain basement prices when all this stuff emerges but at least there is still original gear out there. Hopefully, the dealers shan't get hold of it because they will sew on all sorts of rubbish to try to boost the price.

PK

[Tom Houlihan]

I read a quote somewhere, that reflects on this question. Someone was lamenting that of the 20,000 helmets produced (in a certain style), only 40,000 of them came back from the war. Think about it...

[august winter]

Thanks for the comments everyone, hey paddy, the mint waffen ss smocks, did the source say how they aquired them?

Simon, i love your site and recheck it on a regular basis for updates, keep up the good work!

cheers,
august

[Simon H]

Thanks for the compliment August.

Perhaps alluding to what Tom has already said it is worth noting that everything that can be copied has been. Some of the uniforms now produced can look very authentic after a few weeks "in the field" being worn by living history reenactors.

And as Paddy K also says the original stuff is never cheap - unless you get it from the old veteran or a French farmer first