st. Lo losses
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st. Lo losses
what are the losses of both sides at ST. lo?
- Spinechicken
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Spinechicken (I won't ask where that came from! )
German losses of 80,000 are most certainly high - may include losses from Cherbourg. The 80k would have wiped out the defenders three times over at St. Lo!
By the time Cherbourg had fallen US losses were about 40k as I recall.
The problem in computing losses for battles like this is that Normandy was a series of small battles rolled into one large compaign - commentators can count the numbers any way they choose, and have, creating much confusion.
cheers
Reb
German losses of 80,000 are most certainly high - may include losses from Cherbourg. The 80k would have wiped out the defenders three times over at St. Lo!
By the time Cherbourg had fallen US losses were about 40k as I recall.
The problem in computing losses for battles like this is that Normandy was a series of small battles rolled into one large compaign - commentators can count the numbers any way they choose, and have, creating much confusion.
cheers
Reb
- Spinechicken
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Heh, yes those figures are totally wrong. They are the combined figures for Wehrmacht losses in the US sector by June 30th (apparently-I think I got that lot from The Battle of The Hedgerows, will have to double check now.) It was the closest thing I could find to any sort of indication of casualties around St. Lo. I would agree that computing true losses in Normandy is an almost impossible task. Such is military history...Reb wrote: Spinechicken (I won't ask where that came from! )
German losses of 80,000 are most certainly high - may include losses from Cherbourg. The 80k would have wiped out the defenders three times over at St. Lo!
By the time Cherbourg had fallen US losses were about 40k as I recall.
The problem in computing losses for battles like this is that Normandy was a series of small battles rolled into one large compaign - commentators can count the numbers any way they choose, and have, creating much confusion.
cheers
Reb
-SC
"An American officer asked me once 'How on earth do you kill a Tiger?', so I told him to go and shoot it up the arse."
-A soldier of the 51st (Highland) Division
-A soldier of the 51st (Highland) Division
Well, these should be pretty accurate at least for the US side and are drawn from the original unit ELRs. For the German side they are basically best guesstimates, based upon total losses reported for the period and upon US POW accounting. Note that the only units included are the 29th Division and its attachments and their German opponents, mostly elements of 3. FJD, i.e., only those units directly invilved in the attack and defense of St. Lo and its immediate environs. (Data are from The Dupuy Institute Division-Level Engagement Database.)Spinechicken wrote:Reb wrote: Heh, yes those figures are totally wrong.
11 July - 390 US, 59 German
12 July - 415 US, 398 German
13 July - 300 US, 53 German
14 July - 150 US, 7 German
15 July - 305 US, 284 German
16 July - 280 US, 126 German
17 July - 272 US, 33 German
18 July - 220 US, 456 German
Total - 2,332 US, 1,416 German
Hope that helps.
- Spinechicken
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Blimey, fantastic (if that's the right word) stuff. You wouldn't happen to have specific figures for what was left of the 352. Division?Rich wrote:Well, these should be pretty accurate at least for the US side and are drawn from the original unit ELRs. For the German side they are basically best guesstimates, based upon total losses reported for the period and upon US POW accounting. Note that the only units included are the 29th Division and its attachments and their German opponents, mostly elements of 3. FJD, i.e., only those units directly invilved in the attack and defense of St. Lo and its immediate environs. (Data are from The Dupuy Institute Division-Level Engagement Database.)
11 July - 390 US, 59 German
12 July - 415 US, 398 German
13 July - 300 US, 53 German
14 July - 150 US, 7 German
15 July - 305 US, 284 German
16 July - 280 US, 126 German
17 July - 272 US, 33 German
18 July - 220 US, 456 German
Total - 2,332 US, 1,416 German
Hope that helps.
-SC
"An American officer asked me once 'How on earth do you kill a Tiger?', so I told him to go and shoot it up the arse."
-A soldier of the 51st (Highland) Division
-A soldier of the 51st (Highland) Division
Hard to say. The division strength was reported as 12,734 plus 335 HiWi as of 1 March 1944. It seems unlikely that the strength was much more than that as of 6 June. And there are two sets of casualty data for it. 7. AOK dekade reports give a total of 3,763 battle casualties for the period 1 June-20 July 1944. But other reports by 7. Armee indiacte that total losses to the division were 7,886 for 6 June-11 July 1944. Likely that includes losses of the division and attachments such as 30. Schnell Brigade, KG Heintz and KG 343 ID, which added about 7,378 men. So it seems likely the total strength of the division as of about 12 July was still around 12,561. But even with that strength and possibly a few replacements it seems unlikely that any of the 17-odd Infanterie, Pionier and Fuesilier battalions could have averaged much more than one or two hundred each, at least in terms of Gefechtsstaerke.Spinechicken wrote:Blimey, fantastic (if that's the right word) stuff. You wouldn't happen to have specific figures for what was left of the 352. Division?
-SC