Spandau machine gun?

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:51 am

hi, anyone heard of the Spandau machine gun used by Waffen SS troops? I read in the book "The Devil's Adjuant" about Kampfgurre Peiper that the Waffen SS used it. Any help will be apprectaited! thanks!

helmut

Tom Houlihan · Post by **Tom Houlihan** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:43 am

I believe the consensus is that this is a misnomer, based on the fact that some MGs were made in (by?) Spandau. This term has been used elsewhere, but it's technically wrong, IIRC.

Epaminondas · Post by **Epaminondas** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:43 am

Spandau is a nickname for machine guns; it was a huge factory that was part a of the German [Prussian actually] warmachine for centuries.

so a spandau would be properly a MG34 or 42.

And yes, the Waffen SS used both.

Alex Bucher's German Infantry Handbook would be an useful book.
ISBN: 0887402844

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:58 am

thanks kameraden!

DXTR · Post by **DXTR** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:23 am

This is not quite right....
The spandau machinegun is a well known item of the first world war, and anyone familiar with WWI dog fight trivia, would probably tell you that the spandau machinegun refers to the typical Maxim LMG 08/150 mounted on german bi or triplanes. (since it was found more suitable for shooting through the propellars). Its a quite cumbersome device and it could explain why in Sayes Forgotten Soldier that it is such a pest to drag around. It is a relic of the WWI and does not refer to the MG34 or 42. see http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/mgun_spandau.htm.

Regards
DXTR

Helmut Von Moltke · Post by **Helmut Von Moltke** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:35 am

DXTR wrote:This is not quite right....
The spandau machinegun is a well known item of the first world war, and anyone familiar with WWI dog fight trivia, would probably tell you that the spandau machinegun refers to the typical Maxim LMG 08/150 mounted on german bi or triplanes. (since it was found more suitable for shooting through the propellars). Its a quite cumbersome device and it could explain why in Sayes Forgotten Soldier that it is such a pest to drag around. It is a relic of the WWI and does not refer to the MG34 or 42. see http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/mgun_spandau.htm.

Regards
DXTR

hmm.. many machine guns do have similar names....

helmut

DXTR · Post by **DXTR** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:40 am

Maybe I was too fast.... but it does seem odd to me that in Sayers Forgotten Soldier, the squad prior to kursk is issued with a Spandau, and it is portrayed as something that is difficult to carry around.... but on the other hand wikipedia (not that this is a credible source) claims that it also refers to mg 34/42. Hmmm does anyone know whether the maxim spandau (WWI) was issued during WWII (I recall having seen it in german service). If this was the case we can't really be sure what spandau refers to.

regards

DXTR

Tom Houlihan · Post by **Tom Houlihan** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:05 am

DXTR, for what it's worth, I still think the "Spandau" reference in Sajer is a translation error. Just my 2 pfennigs worth...

Christian · Post by **Christian** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 11:24 am

The designation "Spandau" refers indeed to the Maschinengewehr MG 08/15 used in the First World War. I seem to remember that a limited number of these weapons made it into the Heer and were used for stationary defensive positions. Maybe somebody can confirm.

Christian

Reb · Post by **Reb** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:48 pm

Spandau was British slang in WW2 for any German machine gun. Just as Schmeisser referred to MP 38 / MP 40 sub machine guns.

May have had its genesis in WW1 but read any WW2 memoir and you'll see that's what they call the quick shooters....

Slang does not require technical accuracy.

cheers
Reb

Christian · Post by **Christian** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:40 pm

Here is some additional information:

"Das MG 08/15 bewährte sich, wie das MG 08, im Grabenkrieg. Wie das MG 08 stand es nach dem Ersten Weltkrieg in Diensten der Reichswehr und war bis zur Einführung des MG 34 das Standard- lMG der Wehrmacht und zog sogar als leichtes Fla- MG in den Zweiten Weltkrieg."

Source: http://www.battlefield1918.de/history/129/

Christian

Spandau · Post by **Spandau** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:02 am

Reb wrote:Spandau was British slang in WW2 for any German machine gun. Just as Schmeisser referred to MP 38 / MP 40 sub machine guns.

Avete,

Indeed, that is what I had in mind when I registered on this forum.

Valete,

-Spandau

DXTR · Post by **DXTR** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:50 am

Reb wrote:Spandau was British slang in WW2 for any German machine gun. Just as Schmeisser referred to MP 38 / MP 40 sub machine guns.

May have had its genesis in WW1 but read any WW2 memoir and you'll see that's what they call the quick shooters....

Slang does not require technical accuracy.

cheers
Reb

So I guess its reasonable to think that the use "spandau" is due to poor translation from the english translator and not a term used by the german forces? or what? (scenes from forgotten soldier are to be rewritten/repainted in my mind the veteran is not dragging around an old 08.15 machinegun)

regards
DXTR/David

Reb · Post by **Reb** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:24 am

DXTR

Probably poor translation. GD by the time of Sajer's story would, if narrative and photographic evidence mean anything, have been packing MG-42.

For another bad translation see "PM" for machine pistol. That was, I believe, the French way where a German would have thought "MP."

cheers
Reb

PaulJ · Post by **PaulJ** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:11 pm

Gentlemen,

All of the above are correct.

I can atest, from my own personal work in archival material, that -- as Reb noted -- "spandau" was a loose term in widespread unofficial use (at least by Brit and CW troops) for any German machine gun, ie MG 34/42. Now, that term -- while demonstrably in widespread use in English by the Brit and CW armies (American too?) -- was certainly not the official German name. Nor do I believe Germans ever called them that.

So here's a question for the denizens of this forum -- what were the unofficial "pet" terms of the Germans themselves for the MG34/42? Anyone?

And one personal observation -- just because the MG42 wasn't as big and bulky as a Maxim does not mean that one might not complain about having to hump it around. Have you ever had to carry a squad MG? Even "light" ones like the admittedly sleek MG42 get heavy. So the mere fact that the troops remarked about the weight of lugging it (and most particularly the ammunition), does not ipso facto prove that they "must" have been referring to the older Maxim rather than the MG34 or 42.

Just my two cents worth,