Many of you will know about the village of Imber. Imber, which is in the South east of England, was requisitioned during WWII in order to give Allied troops the opportunity to practice house to house and street fighting.
Within the locality there are numerous AFV's which are partly or totally destroyed and have, presumably, been used for soldiers to use anti tank weapons on. The village and its area are opened to the public on a limited number of days per year in order for the ex residents to go back.
Does anyone know what tanks etc. are on the site, and also have any idea as to the type and extent of damage to them ?. I am very interested in the effect of anti tank weaponry on tanks- does anyone know of any websites that may be informative in this respect ?
In France it is easy to find examples of the effect of anti tank weaponry, because I know of many tank turrets sunk into the ground and also armoured gun emplacement cupolas that show penetration or have many AP shells lodged in them.
I even know of a large bronze Great War memorial that has several AP rounds embedded in it or show signs of AP strikes. It would be interesting to discover if it was designed this way, or if Jerry decided to take a few pops at it whilst on their travels through France !
Beershark.
Army training ground
Moderator: John W. Howard
Beershark,
To correct you Imber is located on Salisbury Plain. In the past I have visited the ranges around Imber and photographed wrecks of the following;
Alvis Stalwart, Centurion tanks, Conqueror tanks, 432 APC'S. WW2 vintage Daimler Scout car (this wreck was in very reasonable condition and was subsequently removed by person/s unknown), ex Iraqi T55's as well as Chieftain MkI/MkII/MkIII.
The ranges are open to be public during holidays and were open over the Christmas break.
The targets are arranged in such a way that the side facing away from the gunners often has earth pushed up against it. Some targets look OK from this side until you see the side that has been fired against!!
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Smon
To correct you Imber is located on Salisbury Plain. In the past I have visited the ranges around Imber and photographed wrecks of the following;
Alvis Stalwart, Centurion tanks, Conqueror tanks, 432 APC'S. WW2 vintage Daimler Scout car (this wreck was in very reasonable condition and was subsequently removed by person/s unknown), ex Iraqi T55's as well as Chieftain MkI/MkII/MkIII.
The ranges are open to be public during holidays and were open over the Christmas break.
The targets are arranged in such a way that the side facing away from the gunners often has earth pushed up against it. Some targets look OK from this side until you see the side that has been fired against!!
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Smon
Simon Harrold
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken decoded.
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken decoded.
Imber
Your message is very helpful, Simon. Do you know if there is a website that gives even more information ? I am thinking of exact dates/times of opening,how to access the range etc. Given that on most maps the village isn't even shown, I think it might be kind of hard to locate it easily with a view to seeing the wrecks.
Cheers,
Beershark
Cheers,
Beershark
The ranges will not be open again now until Easter I imagine. I would suggest you try this site for map info;
http://www.multimap.com/
Just type in Imber in the town name and it will come up. There are not actually hard targets in the village itself as this area is reserved for Infantry training. The majority of targets can best be seen from the road that runs between Imber and Warminster (Battlesbury Bowl) area.
Local newspapers always carry information of when the ranges are open, and during these times they are open 12 hours, i.e 6am-6pm.
Hope this helps!
http://www.multimap.com/
Just type in Imber in the town name and it will come up. There are not actually hard targets in the village itself as this area is reserved for Infantry training. The majority of targets can best be seen from the road that runs between Imber and Warminster (Battlesbury Bowl) area.
Local newspapers always carry information of when the ranges are open, and during these times they are open 12 hours, i.e 6am-6pm.
Hope this helps!
Simon Harrold
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken decoded.
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken decoded.
Imber
Many thanks, Simon. This info is really helpful.
For the benefit of any other interested party, these emails refer to an army shooting range and training area. It is based around an English village that was comandeered by the Army during the war on the understanding that the villagers could have it back afterwards. Of course, it was never returned. It is now open to the public on certain days per year and does have some interesting AFVs that are used as targets. These are scattered around the village.
Beershark
For the benefit of any other interested party, these emails refer to an army shooting range and training area. It is based around an English village that was comandeered by the Army during the war on the understanding that the villagers could have it back afterwards. Of course, it was never returned. It is now open to the public on certain days per year and does have some interesting AFVs that are used as targets. These are scattered around the village.
Beershark
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Paddy Keating
I remember FIBUA (Fighting In Built-Up Areas) exercises in Imber in the mid-80s. I have some photos somewhere. We weren't allowed in the church or the graveyard as it was still consecrated ground and former residents of the village and relatives were allowed access on certain days of the year.
Salisbury Plain and the tank gunnery and rocket ranges dotted with wrecks of various kinds. I recall a Churchill tank but I think that was removed for restoration quite recently. There was a very good article in one of the editions of After The Battle magazine. I think I have it in the office and will look it out for you so that you can order the relevant back issue.
There have been many complaints about the army's use of Salisbury Plain, particularly from environmentalists but the truth of the matter is that the military control of the area has conserved it as one of Europe's largest and last remaining stretches of wild grasslands. If the masses were allowed free access, the place would quickly be ruined. The army actually has quite strict rules aimed at minimising damage to the area.
That said, you do have the right to cross the areas under military control because of laws governing ancient rights of way and you can also venture freely into areas that were formerly common land. I think you can probably roam anywhere on the Plain now because of recent legisation aimed at opening up the countryside to ramblers but there may be restrictions in the case of land used for military training. You would need to be sure of your rights.
If you do go a-wandering there, follow Simon's advice about range times and suchlike and keep a lookout for red flags as these mean that ranges are in use . Watch out too for armoured vehicles as they can move surprisingly fast and people have been run over.
PK
Salisbury Plain and the tank gunnery and rocket ranges dotted with wrecks of various kinds. I recall a Churchill tank but I think that was removed for restoration quite recently. There was a very good article in one of the editions of After The Battle magazine. I think I have it in the office and will look it out for you so that you can order the relevant back issue.
There have been many complaints about the army's use of Salisbury Plain, particularly from environmentalists but the truth of the matter is that the military control of the area has conserved it as one of Europe's largest and last remaining stretches of wild grasslands. If the masses were allowed free access, the place would quickly be ruined. The army actually has quite strict rules aimed at minimising damage to the area.
That said, you do have the right to cross the areas under military control because of laws governing ancient rights of way and you can also venture freely into areas that were formerly common land. I think you can probably roam anywhere on the Plain now because of recent legisation aimed at opening up the countryside to ramblers but there may be restrictions in the case of land used for military training. You would need to be sure of your rights.
If you do go a-wandering there, follow Simon's advice about range times and suchlike and keep a lookout for red flags as these mean that ranges are in use . Watch out too for armoured vehicles as they can move surprisingly fast and people have been run over.
PK
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John W. Howard
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Father
Hello Gents:
Thank you very much for this fascinating thread. My father trained on Salisbury Plain during WWII as part of the US Army. He did house-to-house on Salisbury Plain and in Scotland. He does not remember any specific town names though. He is very interested in your information and in a small way glad to know the tradition of training there continues. Best wishes.
Thank you very much for this fascinating thread. My father trained on Salisbury Plain during WWII as part of the US Army. He did house-to-house on Salisbury Plain and in Scotland. He does not remember any specific town names though. He is very interested in your information and in a small way glad to know the tradition of training there continues. Best wishes.
John W. Howard
Imber village
Thanks, guys, for your feedback on Imber. I shall plan a visit there in the Spring/Summer
Beershark
Beershark
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UK Lightgunner
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For any of you people who have seen the Tv series `Band of Brothers`,one of the British Tanks used was recovered from a firing range and restored to full working order,i drove about in it during the filming and as you would imagine from the outside it looks fine but the inside of the turret was full of holes (the outside holes had been welded up)Its amazing how some people will spend years to bring something so badly damged back to life!
Beershark,
If you happen to be able to get hold of a copy of Military Machines International for January this year you can see some photos of range relics I submitted. Including a turretless Conquerer tank (the editor doesn't actually admit that I had already identified it for him).
On a lighter note I can confirm what Paddy says about AFV's on the Plain. A friend of my brother in law went off roading in his old banger and got stuck in the mud. They abandoned the car with the idea of dragging it out the following day with a tractor.
Needless to say when they returned they found a flat car!! Apparently a Challenger tank had sat on it during the night!!!
They guessed this was done deliberately by "someone" after presumably checking the car was empty
If you happen to be able to get hold of a copy of Military Machines International for January this year you can see some photos of range relics I submitted. Including a turretless Conquerer tank (the editor doesn't actually admit that I had already identified it for him).
On a lighter note I can confirm what Paddy says about AFV's on the Plain. A friend of my brother in law went off roading in his old banger and got stuck in the mud. They abandoned the car with the idea of dragging it out the following day with a tractor.
Needless to say when they returned they found a flat car!! Apparently a Challenger tank had sat on it during the night!!!
They guessed this was done deliberately by "someone" after presumably checking the car was empty
Simon Harrold
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken decoded.
WW2 Battlefield Relics: German Erkennungsmarken decoded.
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phylo_roadking
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I remember as a kid being on a caravan tour or Yorkshire with my family, at age 16 I think, and north of Richmond near Catterick we came to a T-junction at the edge of a military range, and on the other side of a one strand barbed wire fence was a rusty perforated by VERY recognisable Churchill Mk3!
In a related vein, back in the '90s I visited another village expropriated as a military training area -- but this one was on the coast, I can't remember the name. At least part of the village had been made into a sort of museum of daily life circa 1940 when it was evacuated.
As I said, this was on the south coast, I should imagine somewhere nearish to Brighton, but I can't for the life of me remember the name. Anyone?
As I said, this was on the south coast, I should imagine somewhere nearish to Brighton, but I can't for the life of me remember the name. Anyone?
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Tom Houlihan
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UK Lightgunner
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I dont think it is Brighton as i live there and the locals would say something about it,there is a Victorian Fort just a few miles East down the coast that is a museum and was used in WW2 as shore Battery`s etc,not sure where the coastal village is that you mention,would be very interesting to find out though.PaulJ wrote:In a related vein, back in the '90s I visited another village expropriated as a military training area -- but this one was on the coast, I can't remember the name. At least part of the village had been made into a sort of museum of daily life circa 1940 when it was evacuated.
As I said, this was on the south coast, I should imagine somewhere nearish to Brighton, but I can't for the life of me remember the name. Anyone?
Regards from the UK
UK Lightgunner,
Upon reflection, I think I should qualify "nearish to Brighton." I'm a Canadian, so when I say "near" I mean within 150km or so (which as a percentage of the breadth of my country, is probably less than 5 or 10 km would be in the UK).
But anyway, I think the place I am thinking of was near Poole, which you will note is just due south of the Salisbury plain training areas. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Cheers,
Upon reflection, I think I should qualify "nearish to Brighton." I'm a Canadian, so when I say "near" I mean within 150km or so (which as a percentage of the breadth of my country, is probably less than 5 or 10 km would be in the UK).
But anyway, I think the place I am thinking of was near Poole, which you will note is just due south of the Salisbury plain training areas. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
Cheers,