You see, we Americans are damned if we don't act fast enough (as in WWI and WWII), but we are also damned if we do, (as in Vietnam, Iraq I and Iraq II). You Europeans, Australians, Canadians, etc are a bunch of back-stabbing S.O.B.'s. When China and India move into the Middile Eastern oil situation in a big way, maybe then you will be taking a dump in your pants, or sending troops into the fight. Right now you rely on the good old USA , while bitching and complaining every chance you get.
Cheers,
Walter
Walter,
I hope you are not rolling the UK into your perspective on how the Europeans are acting and thinking in the Middle East.
We do have huge numbers of troops committed to Iraq and Afghanistan you know!!
UK Lightgunner wrote:You see, we Americans are damned if we don't act fast enough (as in WWI and WWII), but we are also damned if we do, (as in Vietnam, Iraq I and Iraq II). You Europeans, Australians, Canadians, etc are a bunch of back-stabbing S.O.B.'s. When China and India move into the Middle Eastern oil situation in a big way, maybe then you will be taking a dump in your pants, or sending troops into the fight. Right now you rely on the good old USA , while bitching and complaining every chance you get.
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Cheers,
Walter
With respect to you Walter,how are we a bunch of backstabbers?America goes out of its way to foster the mythe that you won WW1 and WW2 on its own through various different mediums such as TV and Film/internet,so small wonder people`s outside America get a bit annoyed at this,secondly,just look at your politics,what a shambles,a president who couldnt name one of his foreign counterparts during his election campaign and has caused Western security to plummet due to his ill conceived war,of which,you as a `so called` Superpower` are struggling to bring under control and finally Walter,i as a European dont rely on you at all,so why do say we do?
Hi UK Lightgunner,
I should have clarified that when I referred to Europeans I meant those whose support has been lacking, mostly continentals like the French and Germans.
Cheers,
Walter
P.S. It is a simple fact that if there was no America, you would be speaking German and singing Deutchland Uber Alles.
"A person hears only what they understand."-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
I should have clarified that when I referred to Europeans I meant those whose support has been lacking, mostly continentals like the French and Germans.
Cheers,
Walter
P.S. It is a simple fact that if there was no America, you would be speaking German and singing Deutchland Uber Alles.[/quote]
Come off it Walter,even if the Germans had invaded the UK there is no way we would have taken up German as a language,thats just plain ridiculous and if you could have met people of my Grandfathers generation you would be of the same opinion,had the Germans been succssesfull in the invasion we would have carried on fighting as have some Iraqies with an Army of occupation in thier country at the moment.
Walter Wulfsen wrote:[
P.S. It is a simple fact that if there was no America, you would be speaking German and singing Deutchland Uber Alles.
That is a bit of a flippant remark to be honest Walter
Britain wasn’t speaking German in 1941. The path of WWII and the balance of world power would have been very different had the USA not entered the war, but to infer Britain would have capitulated and have been successfully occupied is at least, highly doubtful.
Also, you seem to be forgetting the involvement of the USSR. They did after all inflict the lion-share of casualties on the German Armed Forces in WWII did they not?
Walter Wulfsen wrote:[
P.S. It is a simple fact that if there was no America, you would be speaking German and singing Deutchland Uber Alles.
That is a bit of a flippant remark to be honest Walter
Britain wasn’t speaking German in 1941. The path of WWII and the balance of world power would have been very different had the USA not entered the war, but to infer Britain would have capitulated and have been successfully occupied is at least, highly doubtful.
Also, you seem to be forgetting the involvement of the USSR. They did after all inflict the lion-share of casualties on the German Armed Forces in WWII did they not?
Hi Cott Tiger,
You seem to be forgetting about all the support that the USA provided to both Britain and The Soviet Union, before and after 1941. Through the Lend-Lease program Britain was supplied with all manner of weapons and war materiel, like Thompson Sub Machineguns, planes, tanks, jeeps,etc, etc, etc. We also provided the Soviets with the same thing. We Americans also drained Germany's resources by fighting in North Africa, Sicily, and mainland Italy along with you Brits. Without all that America did and provided, I dare say that Britain would have been overrun by an emboldened and more confident Germany. The oil fields of the Middle East would have been taken and, finally, The Soviets would be pushed back to the Urals.
Cheers,
Walter
"A person hears only what they understand."-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
You seem to be forgetting about all the support that the USA provided to both Britain and The Soviet Union, before and after 1941. Through the Lend-Lease program Britain was supplied with all manner of weapons and war materiel, like Thompson Sub Machineguns, planes, tanks, jeeps,etc, etc, etc. We also provided the Soviets with the same thing. We Americans also drained Germany's resources by fighting in North Africa, Sicily, and mainland Italy along with you Brits. Without all that America did and provided, I dare say that Britain would have been overrun by an emboldened and more confident Germany. The oil fields of the Middle East would have been taken and, finally, The Soviets would be pushed back to the Urals.
Cheers,
Walter[/quote]
Very true Walter and contrary to what you may think,we in England do really appreciate your help but lets be under no ilussion here,had Germay overun England,America would have be isolated,having no island Britain to launch an offensive on mainland Europe, plus, all the Divisions we had tied down fighting in the Meditteranean theatre and all the thousand of men who manned flak guns in Germany would have been fighting on the Russian front including the Desert Fox himself with unheeded supplies of men and equipement. which would have surely defeated the Russians.
You seem to be forgetting about all the support that the USA provided to both Britain and The Soviet Union, before and after 1941. Through the Lend-Lease program Britain was supplied with all manner of weapons and war materiel, like Thompson Sub Machineguns, planes, tanks, jeeps,etc, etc, etc. We also provided the Soviets with the same thing. We Americans also drained Germany's resources by fighting in North Africa, Sicily, and mainland Italy along with you Brits. Without all that America did and provided, I dare say that Britain would have been overrun by an emboldened and more confident Germany. The oil fields of the Middle East would have been taken and, finally, The Soviets would be pushed back to the Urals.
Cheers,
Walter
Hi UK Lightgunner,
I think your problems with the quote function can be solved by replacing
[/b wrote: with
at the beginning of the quote, by using the edit function. I hope that helps
Cheers,
Walter
"A person hears only what they understand."-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Cheers Walter,i`m bloody useless with computers!!lol
We must have pressed send at the same time for our posts as my reply to your previous post is above this one
UK Lightgunner wrote:Cheers Walter,i`m bloody useless with computers!!lol
We must have pressed send at the same time for our posts as my reply to your previous post is above this one
Hi UK Lightgunner,
Yes, our posts must have crossed together. You are right, too, about America needing Britain as well. Without your island nation aircraft carrier, British soldiers' fighting spirit and skill, and the Lion who gave the roar (Sir Winston Churchill), we would definitely have had a greater struggle on our hands. Who knows,...being isolated (if Britain fell)...we may now be speaking German as well today!
Cheers,
Walter
Last edited by Walter Wulfsen on Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"A person hears only what they understand."-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
Yes, our posts must have crossed together. You are right, too, about America needing Britain as well. Without your island nation aircraft carrier, British soldiers fighting spirit and skill, and the Lion who gave the roar (Sir Winston Churchill), we would definitely have had a greater struggle on our hands. Who knows,...being isolated (if Britain fell)...we may now be speaking German as well today!
Cheers,
Walter
I couldnt have put that better myself Walter,at the end of the day,it was a team effort all round,and i think its fair to say ,a bloody good one!
India had a well defined role in British pre-war plans: Its army was to largely take over as garrison in the colonies and conquests Britain had or made round the Indian Ocean, thereby releasing British troops for operations elsewhere. It was also to find several divisions for front line operations.
India did all these things successfully. Indeed, it did more than had been originally planned, because it sent three divisions to the European theatre of operations in 1943-45. By 1945 the Indian Army had a corps in action in Italy and several corps in action in Burma. It had already served in the Western Desert, Somaliland, Sudan, Ethiopia and Madagascar with success and gone down to defeat in Hong Kong, Malaya and Burma. Indian divisions were the core of the British garrisons of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Irag, Iran, the Gulf States and Aden. By the end of 1945 they had also provided the bulk of the forces that had reoccupied Burma, Malaya, Dutch Indonesia and French Indo-China.
If I remember rightly, Britain itself suffered only about 30,000 fatalities in the entire war against Japan, nearly half of whom died as POWs. (To put this into some sort of context, Britain lost 20,000 dead on the first day of the Battle of the Somme in 1916). In other words, India largely carried the sharp end of the British land campaign against Japan.
So, I think India and its army can be regarded as a decided asset to the British.
Yes the Indian Army has been very much underated in this thread, and a few fail to realize is that India had a perfect opportunity to defect to the German cause but they held strong for the Empire, and for that i thank them. cya.
There is no such thing as defeat, but the postponement of another war
I'm not disputing Indias war time service,but if it was the UK would have been better off without all the colonies. The ideas i believe was for trade,but then the UK made commitmets for the defence and other things.In 1939 UK had about 40,000 troops in India,it's navy was suppose to go to the rescue because most of these colonies couldn't defend themselves. The UK was glad to turn it over to the USN because they didn't have the ships or manpower. My point is the UK's most dangerous enemy was Germany,they needed every man and ship they had. Remember if the UK wouldn't have all these commitments they could have a much better chance agains't the enemy in thier back yard,trading was one thing,colonization another.
I may be wrong, but weren't there people in the UK who felt they were being overstreched?
Rodger Herbst wrote:I'm not disputing Indias war time service,but if it was the UK would have been better off without all the colonies. The ideas i believe was for trade,but then the UK made commitmets for the defence and other things.In 1939 UK had about 40,000 troops in India,it's navy was suppose to go to the rescue because most of these colonies couldn't defend themselves. The UK was glad to turn it over to the USN because they didn't have the ships or manpower. My point is the UK's most dangerous enemy was Germany,they needed every man and ship they had. Remember if the UK wouldn't have all these commitments they could have a much better chance agains't the enemy in thier back yard,trading was one thing,colonization another.
I may be wrong, but weren't there people in the UK who felt they were being overstreched?
When you as a nation such as Great Britain build an empire, you are obligated to defend that empire, with your own troops, Britain's empire fed her, clothed her and sustained her, without her massive empire Britain would have been some igsignificant backwater of Europe.cya.
There is no such thing as defeat, but the postponement of another war
