Panzer IV Ausf F2 first combat?

German weapons, vehicles and equipment 1919-1945.

Moderator: sniper1shot

User avatar
Bryson C
Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:56 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Bryson C » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:06 pm

Paulus II wrote:I seem to recall the so-called Ausf. F2 having a different muzzlebrake than the Ausf. G. All vehicles with a 'ball-shaped' muzzlebrake being refered to as F2 and later vehicles with the 'typical' muzzlebrake being refered to as G. The F2 being an upgunned F1 and only after changing the muzzlebrake and adding some armour was the vehicle refered to as Ausf. G. Of course this information is based on various books and sites. Are they all wrong?
The 'rounded' muzzle brake was a feature of early Ausf.G with the 7.5cm L/43. The 7.5cm L/48 introduced in April 1943 had the redesiged muzzle brake.

User avatar
Paulus II
Patron
Posts: 1249
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:38 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post by Paulus II » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:08 pm

You are right Bryson. I finally found a source which mentions exactly what you wrote.
I stand corrected.
Intrigueing how this sort of thing leads its own life and replaces the actual facts.

User avatar
wiltaz
Contributor
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:47 am
Location: Chesapeake, Va USA
Contact:

Post by wiltaz » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:41 pm

I think it's not so much as the F2 didn't exist but that the Germans didn't call it the F2. They called the F, Sd Kfz 161 and if it had the longer gun it was the Sd Kfz 161/1. The F2 designation seems to have come along and copied to distinguish the long barrelled versions from the short barrelled versions. My guess is some author added it to keep them seperate without using the Sd Kfz numbers.

According to my sources the Germans planned to introduce the better gun in the G but didn't want to wait. So they lost a month of production and added the L/43 to the F. The only other changes had to do with ammo storage for the larger rounds, seat placement and small details dealing with the new gun. Once the order of Fs was completed then they started making the early G model which was basically the same tank although it evolved over it's life by first switching to the L/48 gun and later additional armor bolted on.

User avatar
Bryson C
Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:56 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Bryson C » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:37 pm

As I said before the 'F2' name was used briefly by the Germans but dropped. The Ausf.F did not have the L/43, the only 'Lang' versions (long gun versions) were the G, H, and J. So the 'F2' and Ausf.G were the same tank, so the 'F2' did exist, but is supposed to be called the Ausf.G.

User avatar
tigre
Patron
Posts: 6074
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:42 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Panzer IV Ausf F2 first combat?

Post by tigre » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:09 pm

Hello to all :D; a complement................................

Pz Kw IV Ausf F2/G (early) in instruction!

Below, two snapshots of an armored unit in a training ground (for the environment) with Pz Kw IV Ausf. F2 or G (early), since the 7.5 cm KwK 40 L / 43 barrel has a single baffle mouth brake and still has vision ports on the sides of the turret ..................

Image

Sources: https://www.ebay.de/sch/sis.html?_itemI ... 4099.l9146
http://henk.fox3000.com/pz4.htm

Cheers. Raúl M 8).
Attachments
image219.jpg
image219.jpg (29.93 KiB) Viewed 992 times
Serás lo que debas ser o no serás nada. General José de San Martín.

Bam
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:11 pm

Re: Panzer IV Ausf F2 first combat?

Post by Bam » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:41 pm

300px-Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-F016223-0024,_Russland,_Krim,_Panzer_IV_im_Einsatz.jpg
300px-Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-F016223-0024,_Russland,_Krim,_Panzer_IV_im_Einsatz.jpg (8.61 KiB) Viewed 526 times
First use of long 7.5cm Pz. IV G : I recall, dimly, once reading that the first examples were sent to the crimea to take part in Manstein's 8th May offensive, Unternehmen Trappenjagd, which recaptured Kerch and wrecked 3 whole Soviet armies.
As the new ausf G was only produced from April 42 on, this would have been the first planned German offensive that could've used them.
So 22nd pz div, may 8th,= first mass use?

The above photo from bundesarchiv, via Wikipedia article Battle of the Kerch Peninsula, shows an early G in crimea in may 42. It has early features: the smoke candle Armored cover on the top left of rear-plate; and globular muzzle brake. The large white tank numbers and spotty camo are consistent with 22nd pz; there's a pic of another identically camo'd G in the Repairing the Panzers books, which was confirmed as 22nd Pz Div by Craig Ellis.

Post Reply