German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Objective research on factual information regarding German military related warcrimes.
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Domen123
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German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Post by Domen123 »

German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż near Kielce (Poland), was in fact a real death camp...

The camp was created in 1941 - as one of four sub-camps of Stalag XII C.

I was there two years ago. It was a very sad place during WW II.

Between 1941 and 1943 over 6,000 Soviet prisoners died or were murdered there (the majority of them lost their lives during the first year)... It is said that only around 100 - 200 POWs survived until the liberation of the camp...

Three other sub-camps of Stalag XII C - in Bliżyn, Kielce and Końskie - were also sad places of suffering cruel agonies. Around 37,000 Soviet POWs lost their lives there between 1941 and 1944 (11,000 in camp "Kamienna" in Kielce, 20,000 in camp in Końskie, 6,000 in camp in Bliżyn).

They had not enough food and terrible conditions of life... what am I talking about - terrible conditions of death !!

When the Germans noticed that prisoners are eating each other and also parts of their own bodies, they made an inscription on the wall in Russian and in German:

"Cannibalism and self-cannibalism will be severely punished".

They weren't even allowed to eat themselves...

This terrible insciption is still there...

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Edit:

Massive grave of 6,000 Russian Soldiers cruelly murdered, starved to death, or forced to cannibalism or self-cannibalism by the Germans in Święty Krzyż between 1941 and 1943 (the majority during the first year)... :

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Domen123
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Re: German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Post by Domen123 »

Germans haven't recognized those terrible crimes yet and they haven't admitted their guilt. Criminals and murderers who are responsible for them and participated in them, have not been punished yet:
[...] Podobozu w Kielcach pilnował Wehrmacht. Polscy śledczy ustalili nazwę jednostki, nazwiska dowódców, materiały przesłali do Republiki Federalnej Niemiec. - Niemcy śledztwa poumarzali. Ustalili, że komendant obozu nie żyje. Uznali, że nie można udowodnić zamiaru zgładzenia wszystkich jeńców, bo dowództwo Wehrmachtu wykonywało tylko obowiązujący wtedy rozkaz rozstrzeliwania komisarzy politycznych, członków partii komunistycznej i Żydów sowieckich. Udali głupich; z materiałów wynikało wyraźnie, że rozmyślnie zgładzono wszystkich jeńców - twierdzi profesor Jankowski.
"[...] Sub-camp in Kielce was guarded by the Wehrmacht. Polish investigatives established the exact name of the unit, the names of commanders, they sent materials to the Federal Republic of Germany. - Germans abandoned all investigations. They established that the commandant of the camp is dead. They recognized that it is not possible to prove the intention of anihilating all of prisoners, because the Wehrmacht leadership was only fulfiling an order which was in force then, to shoot all political commissioners, members of the Communist Party and Soviet Jews. "They simulated idiots; from the materials it appeared clearly that all prisoners had been murdered deliberately" - proffesor Jankowski maintains."
O kieleckim obozie, podobnie jak o sąsiednich, wiedzieli przedstawiciele Państwa Podziemnego i nie przestali się nim interesować nawet gdy Niemcy ujawnili sowiecką zbrodnię w Katyniu. Wywiad AK bardzo bacznie obserwował, co się działo w tych obozach, zachowały się niektóre meldunki. Jesienią 1941 roku została wydana deklaracja podziemnych władz, że jest to zamierzone działanie mające na celu zgładzenie wszystkich jeńców. Nazwano to "czynem szczególnie ohydnym, bo zastosowanym wobec mężnego przeciwnika, wziętego do niewoli w uczciwej walce". [...]
"Representatives of Underground Poland knew about the camp in Kielce, as well as about its neighbours [camps in Końskie, Święty Krzyż and Bliżyn - Domen], and they did not stop to be interested in it even after the Germans exposed the Soviet crimes in Katyn. Intelligence of Home Army was carefully observing what was happening in these camps, some of reports have been preserved. In Autumn of 1941 a declaration of underground government was published, which revealed that it was deliberated action, purpose of which was to exterminate all of POWs. It was called "an act which is especcialy abominable, because is applied against courageous enemy, captured in honest combat." [...]"
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Re: German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Post by phylo_roadking »

I'll leave this thread open for now - though it skirts a fine line on the Holocaust.

One thing to remember is that although judged otherwise at the IMT after the war, neither side in the East regarded themselves as signatories or bound by the Geneva Convention on the treatment of POWs. This decision came AFTER the end of the war, and was made retrospective by the IMT...but during the war neither side in the East regarded themselves as bound by them.

(Strangely enough, though - the USSR and others were later to stand on their NON-signing of various parts of the 1949 Geneva Convention as meaning they were NOT bound by them :evil: There's nothing quite like creating a legal precedent...then NOT standing on it!!!)


Remember - Stalin had to ASK Hitler to live by them and HRLW in the sumer of 1941...exactly the same as the Finns and Soviets had had to agree between themselves to respect various parts of HRLW and Geneva During the Winter War...for the USSR was not a signatory of Hague, Lenin had repudiated ALL pre-Revolution international treaties in 1917 :shock: The Bolshevik view on international treaties etc. was that they could be made on an adhoc basis, and only last as long as required - and ONLY between the two nations concerned :wink: They wanted to avoid ANY of the internested treaty issues that had dragged Russia into WWI...

And Hitler said no :shock: Meaning of course that the Wehrmacht similarly had no protection under international treaty law as it stood THEN. No HCRC monitoring of conditions and wellbeing of POWS for German POWs in Russia, no monitoring of conditions and the wellbeing of Soviet POWs in German camps. Nor any internationally-guaranteed protection for either side in THAT conflict.
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Domen123
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Re: German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Post by Domen123 »

Those 43,000 murdered and starved to death in these four POW camps (camp "Kamienna" in Kielce, camps in Końskie, Święty Krzyż and Bliżyn) Russian soldiers - Prisoners of War - deserve for eternal remembrance and fame - as inscription on the monument in Święty Krzyż says. The vast majority of them are anonymous.

Their cruel German persecutors also deserve for eternal remembrance - but for other reasons.
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jerijerod
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Re: German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Post by jerijerod »

i'm not defending the German treatment of Soviet POW's but the Soviets were no better. Oberst Hans Von Luck describes a pretty horrifying POW system in his memoirs and Wiliam Craig (enemy of the gates) describes mass starvation, death and brutality facing the 6th armies "Survivors."

I agree with Phylo that both sides were exceptionally brutal to each other.
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Re: German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Post by TonyCarrell »

I think the Cold War had a lot to do with the American people not being aware of the sacrifices of the Soviet Union and its people during the Second World War. The War in Western Europe was tame, when compared to the War on the Eastern Front. American Forces fought of that there is no doubt,and I won't belittle their efforts.They were for the most part vary brave men. But the real war was fought in the East.
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John W. Howard
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Re: German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Post by John W. Howard »

Hi Tony:
The Cold War also had a lot to do with the Russian people not knowing what we did for them too. You are correct in saying the Ostfront was a brutal meat-grinder that did much to destroy the German Armed Forces, but I take exception to phrases like "the real war being fought on the Ostfront". War is real where ever it is fought, and several German vets of the Ostfront, who later fought the Western Allies would not agree the Westfront war was "tame". I understand what you are saying and have not taken offense; just thought I would clarify a few things :wink: Best wishes.
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Re: German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Post by ghost »

i'm not defending the German treatment of Soviet POW's but the Soviets were no better. Oberst Hans Von Luck describes a pretty horrifying POW system in his memoirs and Wiliam Craig (enemy of the gates) describes mass starvation, death and brutality facing the 6th armies "Survivors."


regarding the above quote. whilst it is certainly true, do not forget that the Soviet Union did not invade Germany

best wishes

mike melnyk
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Re: German POW camp for Soviet POWs in Święty Krzyż - death camp

Post by jerijerod »

It doesn't excuse the bad treatment of any POW by any nation. Once a man has surrenderred to you he is vulnerable and in your care. If he is a war criminal then he should be seperated, put on trial and treated as such anyone else is just a prisonner. You cannot hold everyone responsible for the behaviour of a minority.
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