I'm doing some work on putting together the basis for a unit history on this division and two recent sources, one by Rikmenspoel and the other by Mitcham, both appear to suggest different perspectives to the 13.SS Division and war crimes in the Balkans.
Rikmenspoel says in his work "Waffen-SS The Encyclopedia" that the division is unlikely to have committed the mass atrocities attributed to it as it never served in areas populated by Bosnian Serbs.
Yet Mitcham states in his recently revised "German Order of Battle" that the 13.SS took part in numerous war crimes and atrocities while in the Balkans.
I tend to view both authors as valuable sources and would like some additional information on what is known or not known about the 13.SS and war crimes in the Balkans.
13.SS war crimes?
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Re: 13.SS war crimes?
Hi gents
is the 13th the division that's also known as Hanschar?
is the 13th the division that's also known as Hanschar?
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- Doktor Krollspell
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Re: 13.SS war crimes?
Yes it was Rolf. The 13. Waffen-Gebirgs-Division der SS "Handschar".
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Krollspell
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Krollspell
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Re: 13.SS war crimes?
ah right... in Rupert Butler's The Black Angels, there's a reference to them being sent to france, refusing to fight, and falling 'on defenceless christians' instead, but Butler doesn't elaborate here??
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Re: 13.SS war crimes?
Hi Rolf,
Butler's books are sensationalist, derivative and unreliable.
If I remember correctly, there was a mutiny by a unit of the division training in France in 1943. This isn't my area of expertise, but I think the conflict was essentially between the mutinous Bosnians and the Germans. I don't recall French civilians being significantly involved.
Butler may be mistakenly lumping the Bosnians in with Ostlegion personnel who were involved in at least one massacre of Frenchmen the following year.
In any event, I would suggest that Butler is of little authority as a source.
Cheers,
Sid.
Butler's books are sensationalist, derivative and unreliable.
If I remember correctly, there was a mutiny by a unit of the division training in France in 1943. This isn't my area of expertise, but I think the conflict was essentially between the mutinous Bosnians and the Germans. I don't recall French civilians being significantly involved.
Butler may be mistakenly lumping the Bosnians in with Ostlegion personnel who were involved in at least one massacre of Frenchmen the following year.
In any event, I would suggest that Butler is of little authority as a source.
Cheers,
Sid.
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Re: 13.SS war crimes?
Hi Sid
Thanks for the reply - yeah, the Butler book was one of those 'charity shop finds', I didn't get the impression it was the most in depth work as far as its subject goes.
Good to see you back by the way!
Thanks for the reply - yeah, the Butler book was one of those 'charity shop finds', I didn't get the impression it was the most in depth work as far as its subject goes.
Good to see you back by the way!
"And I will show you where the Iron Crosses grow!"
Re: 13.SS war crimes?
Servus,
The unit of the Handschar which mutinied was the Pionier-Abteilung. Apparently there were some Communist agitatorsin the ranks andthey tried to stir up trouble. Several of them wre subsequently executd by the Germans.
Regards,
helmut
The unit of the Handschar which mutinied was the Pionier-Abteilung. Apparently there were some Communist agitatorsin the ranks andthey tried to stir up trouble. Several of them wre subsequently executd by the Germans.
Regards,
helmut
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Re: 13.SS war crimes?
Hi,
Noel Malcolm in his "Bosnia" book said that the division murdered thousands civilians, mainly Serbs, in Eastern Bosnia (As far as I know, many Serbs live in the area, even probably more numerous than Muslims during the time.[there is a Dutch official site about Srebrenica massacres that included a WWII background which pointed 13 SS crime in the area and table of ethnic group who live there during the period ). Malcolm info came from Enver Redzic book about 13 ss division. A member AHF from Bosnia said the number victims perhaps up to 5,000, but he was not sure if the perperators only Handschar men or including Zeleni Kadar and other Ustasa/NDH militias in the area.
They were also accused murdered 22 Jews in Tuzla.
Noel Malcolm in his "Bosnia" book said that the division murdered thousands civilians, mainly Serbs, in Eastern Bosnia (As far as I know, many Serbs live in the area, even probably more numerous than Muslims during the time.[there is a Dutch official site about Srebrenica massacres that included a WWII background which pointed 13 SS crime in the area and table of ethnic group who live there during the period ). Malcolm info came from Enver Redzic book about 13 ss division. A member AHF from Bosnia said the number victims perhaps up to 5,000, but he was not sure if the perperators only Handschar men or including Zeleni Kadar and other Ustasa/NDH militias in the area.
They were also accused murdered 22 Jews in Tuzla.
Re: 13.SS war crimes?
But you see, only the Handschar is blamed for the war crimes even thought they say they cannot specifically pin them down as the only perpetrators. There was a lot of racial hatred between the Serbs and the Bosnians and the war only brought all that hatred to the boiling point.
Regards,
Helmut
Regards,
Helmut
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Re: 13.SS war crimes?
I must add what i learned from my conversation with bosnian SS Handzar vet yust one month ago in Mostar ( Bosna ), he sead that they ( 13 SS Handzar ) were also bruttaly killed by tito partizans and that they simply fight in the same way as the comunist bandits did. Abouth the wilages they burn and civilians they slotered he sead that such things happend only if they found out that partizans were hiding in such wilage and they punish the only the civilians who helpd partizans, but such were also their orders given by higher german Waffen SS officers, so if anyone is to blame than the real blame is one the german officers stuff, they were simply solders folowing orders given by superior officers ! He also told me that after the end of 2 WW titos partizans were extremly brutal towords 13.SS Handzar solders, specialy towords croat muslims, in many ocasions they were simply executet at the spot where they were indentifayed while returning from Avstria to Yugoslavia with Croat Ustaša, Serbian Cetnicks, Domobrans, etc ! He sade that the partizans were prior ther extradiction informed by English who was a member of Handzar division ! To manage to stay alife he ascape from the returning colom and hide in the woods as soon he recognise that they have bean blufed and that they are aprouching Yugoslavian border and not Italian as they were promised by English. But that happend yust to his unit while other biger part of divison was cached by Russians who also hatted everything conected to waffen SS ! After a few months in hiding he contacted some handzar vets who manage to stay in the west and they offer him an option to yoin them and start to work for Iranian govermant ! That was his story !!!
Matthias
Matthias