more on the Wormhoudt Massacre --from Axis Forum

Objective research on factual information regarding German military related warcrimes.
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TH Albright
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more on the Wormhoudt Massacre --from Axis Forum

Post by TH Albright »

Below indicates futher evidence of Wilhelm Mohnke as prehaps the most prodigious instigator of Waffen SS war crimes in the West....being that the LSSAH was only a regiment at this time, one must wonder what Sepp Dietrich's role was in possible issuance of an order that day to shoot POWs. However, knowing what we know about Mohnke and Dietrich, it was more likely Mohnke, for whatever reason, may have issued a "take no prisoners" order that day.





"....Hugh Sebald-Montefiore's "Fight to the Last Man", a recent account of the BEF's fight on the road to Dunkirk, contains a discussion of Wormhoudt, based on eyewitness testimony, the Leibstandarte war diary BA/MA RS4/1211, a 2.PD combat report BA/MA RH27-2/93, personal diaries, the official British reports, eyewitness accounts either gathered or taken in interviews by Sebald-Montefiore, letters, and secondary sources such as Aitken and published or unpublished unit histories. This shows the following:

a) The main report is a 1947 Warcrimes Interrogation Report by the same unit that investigated the Le Paradis massacre. Two reports are actually available, the 1947 report superseding the earlier one. They can be found in the archives under NA/PRO WO 309/1813 (for the 1947 report), which contains the original report uncer WCIU /LDC/1500.
b) The WCIU report states that an order was given to at least some Leibstandarte troops that POWs were to be shot. Mohnke is linked to this at least because he commanded II./LSSAH at the time, but also see below.
c) The massacre at the barn was just the most murderous act of the day, POWs apparently had been killed all day singly or in in smaller groups.
d) The first killing may have happened at about 2pm French time in the town square of Wormhoudt, according to Private Oxley of 4th Cheshires, who was wounded in this incident but made an escape after feigning death for a while. This report is not corroborated by anyone else, in particular the times are doubtful. The report was made in 1940, immediately after Oxley's return.
e) Evans reports in an interview with Sebald-Montefiore that 15-20 POWs were machine-gunned at "what looks like a factory" on the Wormhoudt-Cassel road while he was marched past.
b) A private in 7.LSSAH named Oskar Senf gave evidence to the WCIU stating that Mohnke repimanded Ustuf Heinrichs about having brought in POWs, by saying "What do you mean by bringing in prisoners contrary to orders?" Senf was probably part of the POW escort which guarded the group Evans was in. Heinrichs then went to BN HQ to hand over the POWs, but after about half an hour came back with ten men from another company, ordering the escort to take the POS back. When queried about back where, he answered the ten other soldiers knew what to do. When these were then quizzed they said they had orders from Mohnke to shoot the POWs. Senf states how he told both the ten new soldiers and Heinrichs he would not do that. The ten new soldiers said they would, and Heinrichs replied that he had just himself heard what Mohnke had said.
e) The other formation on the field was 6./PR 3 of 2. Panzerdivision, called in to bail out Dietrich and Wünsche, but there is no indication they were involved other that they pushed one truck full of BEF soldiers of the road, firing into it and setting it on fire, leading to most of the men in there to burn to death - it is not clear however whether the truck had surrendered or been overrun.

British eyewitnesses are Evans, Daley, Oxley, Fahey, and Tombs...."
phylo_roadking
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Post by phylo_roadking »

"....Hugh Sebald-Montefiore's "Fight to the Last Man",
....would this be Hugo Sebald-Montefiore who in "Fight to the Last Man" has a very revisionist theory that if Victor Forture O.C. 51st Highland Division hadn't been concerned too much with holding his flanks with the french, then the 12,000 men of the Highland division could have been evacuated?

Well, his credibility is a bit lacking....he blames Fortune for not seeing to it that his men were evacuated as part of Operation Cycle the removal of British troops fro Le Harve and anywhere else within reach...because he was more concerned with not abandoning his allies...and manages to completely MISS (hmmm...) the fact that the Naval O.C. of Cycle was ordered NOT to evacuate the 51st HD by London AFTER Fortune had specifically asked him that is Admiral Sir William James, to stand ready to take his men off the beaches at St. Valery-en-caux.

The problem with being a revisionist historian is that you'd better NOT do something as gross as managing to totally ignore a body of WELL-known first hand evidence - in this case (The National Archive) WO 106/1619 Cypher Telegrams relating to the evacuation of the 51st Division and ADM 179/158 Operation Cycle - Reports....and let's not even mention CHIRCHILL's own words on the decision to abandon the Highland Division! - 'cos then the REST of your book ends up being discredited as well.....when people start wondering how much he distorted the parts about "war crimes"...

And so any "truths" established by Sebald-Montefiore get tarred with the same brush as being more than slightly questionable - whether wrong, or...right..... :?
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Gary T
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Post by Gary T »

phylo_roadking wrote:
then the REST of your book ends up being discredited as well.....when people start wondering how much he distorted the parts about "war crimes"...

And so any "truths" established by Sebald-Montefiore get tarred with the same brush as being more than slightly questionable - whether wrong, or...right..... :?
Absolute garbage.

Go and find these reports yourself and read them. Or are you suggesting these killings are Allied lies? There are enough witnesses - German and British - to say they were not. Nothing Sebald-Montefiore has written in this regard is anything new.

Of course, our resident W-SS 'experts' have deemed these killings (and those at Le Paradis) as completely justified as the British used dum-dum bullets and deceptive white flags. I'm still waiting for evidence of this from the 'authors' and details of the war crimes trials the Germans must have used to establish these facts. Oh, hold on, wait. There weren't any.
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Post by phylo_roadking »

Go back and read EXACTLY what I wrote and what you've quoted. Its more than clear. I said that using Sebald-Montefiore was a mistake, because NO MATTER HOW WRONG OR RIGHT HE IS - he tripped over his own feet trying to make a point. Go and read ALL the threads on here about, say, David Irving and the misquoting of witnesses, or the selective use of prima-facie evidence.

I did NOT say the massacres didn't happen. I said that sadly Sebald-Montefiore's book can't be regarded as the definitive word - when he bullsh1ts on other stuff in it. That's the way writing history works - ask Mr. irving. You c@ck up your reputation in one area, it throws a pall over the REST of what you've done elsewhere. Who regards ANYTHING Irving ever did as of use now....because of the Holocaust stuff?

Hugo Sebald-Montefiore did the same. He chose to ignore prima-facie evidence that's been in the public domain for YEARS to make a point. So why should anyone now read what else he has to say without questioning it???
"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." - Malcolm Reynolds
Reb
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Post by Reb »

Mohnke has always seemed to me to be of dubious character - his face is one I would of those that suggest a creepy rather sneaky fellow.

In various pictures of W-SS (HJ / LAH) it always seems like there are all these SS officers - AND Mohnke.

If you look closely at various photos of SS men from various units and times it looks to me like he belonged in SS Totenkopf circa 1942.

After all his postings we find him for some reason, leading a do or die last ditch stand by an SS escort bn in Berlin. And somehow failed to die... 8)

But he landed on his feet after the war, didn't he?

cheers
Reb
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Post by Panzerass »

I've read - don't ask me where, I don't know at the moment - that Mohnke worked as a salesman after the war, for car trailers, I think.

He never got a trial and died in 2001 at Hamburg.
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Post by Jan-Hendrik »

Mohnke was till 1955 in soviet hands, see Bio by Balsi :wink:

:[]

Jan-Hendrik
Paddy Keating

Re: more on the Wormhoudt Massacre --from Axis Forum

Post by Paddy Keating »

Who is Hugo Sebald-Montefiori? I am aware of the Harvard University Press book Dunkirk Fight to the Last Man by Hugh Sebag-Montefiore, which received critical acclaim in a number of leading broadsheets, but I haven't heard of this revisionist account of Dunkirk by Hugo Sebald-Montefiori. It sounds fascinating.

PK
Paddy Keating

Re: more on the Wormhoudt Massacre --from Axis Forum

Post by Paddy Keating »

Typo: "Montefiore".

Here's the man himself, discussing his book about Enigma: http://www.authorslounge.tv/41/hugh_sebag_montefiore/
PK
filfefil
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Re: more on the Wormhoudt Massacre --from Axis Forum

Post by filfefil »

hello, this is my first posting and following this thread about wilhelm mohnke it reminds me of the statement in another forum at AHF about the hitlerjugend murders of canadian prisoners. its almost seems that mohnke has a deserved reputation when it comes to killing prisoners.read the report about bernhard siebkin and his dealing with prisoners. sorry have not learnt to post links, maybe someone else can do, its in there warcrimes section under 12th ss killing canadian prisoners.
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